Improving the Camera: The Image

[Wayne Morellini]

once u start selling ur 5D LUT box, we can all integrate that. Good OLEDs don't need it though ;-)

I forgot thus one being sick. I was joking about the 5D, in case you couldn't figure it out. I instead suggested a 2D addition (though maybe I should have said 3D for more accuracy. However, you displays, as I have described elsewhere, and with chesonrss of memory and curcuutes these days, every pixel could receive a profile, even multi segment waveform profile for ramping to save space. Pixel values would be quickly transformed to the most accurate on screen value from the last calibration. Way simpler than some of thus stuff, for displays not for workloads though, as you them have to manipulate a lot of data accurately.

Now, the issue with OLED, is that the suffer uniformity issues due to size. So, while you might find a piddling monitor to have good uniformity, a large panel is another issue getting the right power requirements across it, with the current popular display oled technology (unless they solved that in recent years (but why not use multitap anyway).

However, concerning the calibration above, I have on the past put forwards free based quick and simple auto calibration techniques, but now have found a way that is even better and faster, even possibly requiring no calibration request in factory or ever with 100% accuracy, or as close as possible. As usual, investors are welcome.

 

[Mike Nagel]

Wayne, I'm gonna be very honest with u: don't waste ur time.

Hrvoje's working on another very informative post that clarifies that his LUTs are actually 24D and solve all of that. Plus world hunger !!!

;-)

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Wayne, I'm gonna be very honest with u: don't waste ur time.

Hrvoje's working on another very informative post that clarifies that his LUTs are actually 24D and solve all of that. Plus world hunger !!!

;-)

I see the inner kid still hasn't been sent to his room.

If I develop character optimization tool I'll look you up for Beta testing.

 

[Mike Nagel]

Well they cannot iron the character flaws so sorry I cannot help you there.

I understand this is hard to see for a (small ?) man who is trying so hard to portray himself "larger": u may wanna look into helping urself. I don't recall anybody asking for ur help. Why would u even say a line like that ? U seem to have some unresolved issues ;-))))

and u may wanna read up on some of the topics related to color science and LUT based transforms. ur last 3 posts to Aharon are again (partially) heavily flawed.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Rephrased while you were typing.

Thanks for following my project, test of patience and giving me fuel with the passion and energy you spend here.
I learned to transform and harvest these as well.

 

[Mike Nagel]

Rephrased while you were typing.

Thanks for following my project, test of patience and giving me fuel with the passion you spend here.

no, THANK YOU. it's a comedy clinic ;-))))

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

:thumbup1:

:emote_popcorn:

 

[Wayne Morellini]

It looks like it's pick on Mike time?

Wayne, I'm gonna be very honest with u: don't waste ur time.

Hrvoje's working on another very informative post that clarifies that his LUTs are actually 24D and solve all of that. Plus world hunger !!!

;-)

Oh, another sly two way mud sling. I usually find that those who find it easy to throw slosh at somebody, often are not doing anything themselves, and may even lack talent to do so and have a vested interest to stopping things getting done I determined this morning, that I should read through the thread when better, and determine what is the fault.

I understand this is hard to see for a (small ?) man who is trying so hard to portray himself "larger": u may wanna look into helping urself. I don't recall anybody asking for ur help. Why would u even say a line like that ? U seem to have some unresolved issues ;-))))

and u may wanna read up on some of the topics related to color science and LUT based transforms. ur last 3 posts to Aharon are again (partially) heavily flawed.

People often use mud slinging to make themselves appear bigger. It is an old political trick used against leaders to promote the slingers prominence.

Now, I'll grant, that the treatment Hrvoje here, is the same treatment that the crowd, which includes Hrvoje, that comes to my threads give me, which makes me roll my eyes. Now, as the people who do this generally miss the point or don't know what they are talking about, I don't know who is at fault here in logic until I can get well enough to asses it. However rather than be somebody that only tears down and wrecks things, maybe you should try to encourage him, as he is getting results, even if whatever statements you object to are some how mistaken to dome minor or greater degree. Obviously something is working, and he might end up with a product people really like. But if he listens to this stuff he might give up, and nobody gets anything. 90%+ of things may not happen because of rubbish like this.

Now, I'll also grant, and this is something for him, the flowery language, the Karma transcendental transmental like language is too abstract and difficult for me to easily understand what he is saying when I'm sick, without being innthe subjective experience of his thinking in his head it is referenced off of. So, what we need is clinical, denominative explanations to unsubjectively define the logic of the reality of what he is saying. Meaning, its too obscure, clean it up and be more logically scientific about it.

Now, errors of use of level of understanding. Now, it could be the case that one is a user/practitioner of the technology with one understanding of it, and another be a technical user of technology, and another a designers. The same thing means different things to different people, and a user doesn't understand the underlying principle, and a technical user might understand the principles, but not the actual practical use of them. These categories are not primarily dependent on level of intelligence, though proficiency in an upper level usually come with intelligence. So, and depth of knowledge, are other factors affecting peoples understanding. A little guy thinking he is a big guy, might see all advanced levels of understanding as rubbish because he lacks the experience of the knowledge behind that understanding, and the person on the design/engineering then science and then theory levels, might lack appreciation, and even knowledge, of things on the practical use side. So, why camera men generally would make lousy camera designs, as they, literally, flips and rotate nobs etc, and wobble the thing around, and a camera designer may make a lousy camera man, unless he is good at the flipping turning.and wobbling part

Give him a break, and Hrvoje, please speak simply and more directly,not leaving out bits you understand which others may not. Why do you think I spend so very long explaining everything in simple language (and still they don't understand, but at least one trues, the rest is up to them to put in the effort to read and understand).

 

[Mike Nagel]

Thanks Hrvoje, I think I get what you mean. Your explanations are just a bit dissociated at times, jumping from one thing to another without linking the association in language.

well Wayne, considering that YOU (out of all redusers) made this statement === q.e.d. my point. 99% hot air.

;-)))

but it has been entertaining. I am NOT complaining.

Highlights include (not limited to) Hrvoje telling people that it is flawed to tell him to listen to them, and then next line he tells them to listen to him. ;-))) Hrvoje telling everybody here that posts constructive feedback or questions that they do not understand the HVS and/or metamerism or color science or anything at all. Only he does ! Lets be honest: that is top notch, dedicated customer support ! What a way to kick off a product launch !!! ;-)))) Possibly the best: Hrvoje gets insulted instantly at everything that is not full praise for his (s)LUT solution - even when prefacing and pitty padding the reply like for a spoiled 2 year old girl. Then, defensive as a turkey on Thanksgiving, (under the delusional pretends that this states an attack on his product) he (indirectly or directly) starts insulting everybody else ;-)))))) hahahahaaaa Complain about something and then do that exact thing. The word "role model" comes to mind. Also: crazy

look at the OP. Posted straight from loony bin. ;-))))) I LOVE IT.

Windmills.... Strawmen.... THE DOMAIN ABOVE THOUGHT - IMO, this should be his primary marketing slogan !!! ;-))))))))

DAT is an instant all-time classic.

 

[Mike Nagel]

Now, I'll grant, that the treatment Hrvoje here, is the same treatment that the crowd, which includes Hrvoje, that comes to my threads give me, which makes me roll my eyes. Now, as the people who do this generally miss the point or don't know what they are talking about, I don't know who is at fault here in logic until I can get well enough to asses it. However rather than be somebody that only tears down and wrecks things, maybe you should try to encourage him, as he is getting results, even if whatever statements you object to are some how mistaken to dome minor or greater degree. Obviously something is working, and he might end up with a product people really like. But if he listens to this stuff he might give up, and nobody gets anything. 90%+ of things may not happen because of rubbish like this.

Wayne, don't take some of the responses here too serious. I'm very entertained by Hrvoje's behavior - because I know it from other threads.

Nobody here is forced to use his solution and that's that. And I think the solution has been received well it appears by some of the general user feedback here.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

well Wayne, considering that YOU (out of all redusers) made this statement === q.e.d. my point. 99% hot air.

;-)))

but it has been entertaining. I am NOT complaining.

Highlights include (not limited to) Hrvoje telling people that it is flawed to tell him to listen to them, and then next line he tells them to listen to him. ;-))) Hrvoje telling everybody here that posts constructive feedback or questions that they do not understand the HVS and/or metamerism or color science or anything at all. Only he does ! Lets be honest: that is top notch, dedicated customer support ! What a way to kick off a product launch !!! ;-)))) Possibly the best: Hrvoje gets insulted instantly at everything that is not full praise for his (s)LUT solution - even when prefacing and pitty padding the reply like for a spoiled 2 year old girl. Then, defensive as a turkey on Thanksgiving, (under the delusional pretends that this states an attack on his product) he (indirectly or directly) starts insulting everybody else ;-)))))) hahahahaaaa Complain about something and then do that exact thing. The word "role model" comes to mind. Also: crazy

look at the OP. Posted straight from loony bin. ;-))))) I LOVE IT.

Windmills.... Strawmen.... THE DOMAIN ABOVE THOUGHT - IMO, this should be his primary marketing slogan !!! ;-))))))))

DAT is an instant all-time classic.

Dear Mike,

I'm sorry for your demons, leading to this amount of re-occurring spiteful nonsense you evidently cannot control so it manifests online with similar principle and effect like the outcomes of someone's bowl issues on the pavement.

I find good in these byproducts, immune to their stench, and use them as fertilizer.

Thank you for filtering people potentially interested in this project by removing those easily misled and falling for this type of spiteful wishful thinking word twisting nonsensical babble rant. This is great, it's like having an assistant but without spending money.

Thank you for a valuable lesson in human psychology, and for making a part of my spare time easier and more productively distributed and I wish you a safe trip to state of equilibrium, once the Karma takes care of the compensation.

Sending you a hug.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

That is like asking for the temperature of the word "hot"

Yes, Aharon. That's why we have Kelvins, Watts, Newtons, BPMs (tempo; how fast is Slow :biggrin: ), HZs (how frequent) etc.
Btw, destruction isn't scientifically acknowledged (nor creation for that matter) only transformation. Welcome to Metrical! :biggrin:

 

[Wayne Morellini]

well Wayne, considering that YOU (out of all redusers) made this statement === q.e.d. my point. 99% hot air.

I'm watching the beginning of Black Mirror episode 1 on Netflix at the moment and the beginning is so appalling it makes me feel like killing myself, like listening to this. You have to question yourself, Hrjove is doing something, your the one doing nothing but talking hot air. It is classic comparing my writing that way, which pretty much is comprehensive precise and well linked. If you have problem understanding, it is likely your fault. Give it a try instead of poor mans trolling Mike. Hrvoje is right, you are not right, you are trolling. I suggest you both delete it from your posts.

but it has been entertaining. I am NOT complaining.

Highlights include (not limited to) Hrvoje telling people that it is flawed to tell him to listen to them, and then next line he tells them to listen to him. ;-))) Hrvoje telling everybody here that posts constructive feedback or questions that they do not understand the HVS and/or metamerism or color science or anything at all. Only he does ! Lets be honest: that is top notch, dedicated customer support ! What a way to kick off a product launch !!! ;-)))) Possibly the best: Hrvoje gets insulted instantly at everything that is not full praise for his (s)LUT solution - even when prefacing and pitty padding the reply like for a spoiled 2 year old girl. Then, defensive as a turkey on Thanksgiving, (under the delusional pretends that this states an attack on his product) he (indirectly or directly) starts insulting everybody else ;-)))))) hahahahaaaa Complain about something and then do that exact thing. The word "role model" comes to mind. Also: crazy

look at the OP. Posted straight from loony bin. ;-))))) I LOVE IT.

Windmills.... Strawmen.... THE DOMAIN ABOVE THOUGHT - IMO, this should be his primary marketing slogan !!! ;-))))))))

DAT is an instant all-time classic.

"DAT" is bad spelling.

Unfortunately I am familiar with this. Why I don't like certain people groups bombing discussion in my threads (often if not talking at odds, talking about other answers to questions not specifically asked, even in answer) before reasonable people turn up. I take comfort that their tom foolery is totally transparent to future employers and contractees, which they find pretty annoying. I'm an eccentric genius, so I'm fine.

But unlike these people, I'm pretty happy to see and help people succeed in something good. But that is how we should all be, isn't it!

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Time for some fruits and veggies.




Alexa SXT


I shot this.


Prores 444
ISO: 800
WB: 3200K






Resolve generic LogC to 709 LUT

Primer EQX Beta LogC to 709 designed specifically for SXT response in LogC.

Response is not the same as Classic, Mini and Amira.

What you see here in a first example is what generic image transformations typically do to a digital an properly exposed image and in this case on a 100000 Euro camera.

And what happens when someone testing them and shaping their material for years ventures into the unknown, outside of the "left brain" dominant group think.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Man, the original color makes Alexa look like it shops at DaisyMo, a bit dragon like. (DaisyMo is a Japanese discount variety store that has a strong pastel color theme in its goods).

The color in reds seem an issue Hrvoje, probably because the the pink contamination that shows up in the other one is hard to deal with in an global operation. The blemish on the capsicum has almost disappeared, and it is maybe a bit too interpolated reducing detail, the other file being around 23% bigger. Color looks normal otherwise, but not quiet. If you resolve the red component better it may help. I think there might be a sensor weakness causing this. The manufacturer has some leading demosiacing technology they apply to the Alexa images that will be hard to compete against. They use special routines that use color overlap in the binaries to derive more information. This pink might be a result of that, and might also explain more saturated Alexa footage, leaving the footage more saturated in order to dial it out. We have seen the pinky red in the first single chip HDV Sony camera over a decade ago. Seems to come with the territory.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Hey Wayne, that highlight performance is not what SXT does, this is what a generic gamma and color space mapping does. Highlights are alive and well in LogC material. SXT has great highlight performance and the best I've ever tested.

Colorist can get healthy highs from its LogC but accuracy of particular tonalities doesn't come out just like that.
That requires stepping out of the group think and thinking outside the box. And taking shit from some still stuck in it.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Highlights?

I wasn't thinking permanent loss, just the look. Why did you put it up, if it is just a generic grade starting point that has inaccuracies? Maybe I'm missing the point of showing it, I have pocket cameras that do this? Tonalities, I'm taking about color channel issues of the sensor, and definition loss, which I thought your project was aiming to correct? We'd better stop talking before Mike comes back.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

We are talking about the same thing. This generic LUT messes up the image as signal approaches the extremes and the tool designed based on camera's response keeps the consistency plus corrects other micro offsets in the signal, most visible here in more accurate blues.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Ok. What about the reds?

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

In LogC they are cool, generic LUTs deviate them and digitally overboost.