Improving the Camera: The Image

[Mike Nagel]

defensive. jumpy. wow. And I was trying to be very nice about it ;-)

re: the girl. it's footage, plain and simple. but u're nitpicking example shots. I get it. I assume when somebody requires a grade from you you're telling him that u'll only grade certain shots of his movie ? gotta be very healthy for business.

1)You put the Primer on the node (not timeline)

2) You adjust WB in Raw settings

3) You do the appropriate signal adjustments in log before the Primer

4) You do the appropriate tweaks in video after the Primer

5) You avoid auto chart matching by dumb algorithms because Primers do a better job fixing the colors

6) You practice and test and get the hang of it pretty soon.

btw the "workflow" that u describe above explains a lot. Very organized approach. The sophistication and particularly the order of things makes me think of the time when meds were not that expensive. U had me when u said "timeline".

Post a finished shot. If u can.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Have a nice week, Mike.
No image posted in this thread by me will ever be motivated by your pushing and rhetoric.

There were few coming up today actually and I just changed my mind because it would seem as if I they were motivated by your recent parade.

 

[Mike Nagel]

Hrvoje, u know where insecurity comes from ? Uncertainty.

Post ur stuff like a man who actually believes in half of the meaningless ramblings that u spread across ur posts to distract and divert from directly addressing inquiries.

;-)

 

[Sabovic Adis]

(...) the 1D is off (...)

By how much?

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Hrvoje, u know where insecurity comes from ? Uncertainty.

Post ur stuff like a man who actually believes in half of the meaningless ramblings that u spread across ur posts to distract and divert from directly addressing inquiries.

;-)

a) You are projecting some "beliefs" and "insecurity" and after the rhetoric in this thread the motivation for that is understandable.

b) You have mistaken this discussion for a teenage pissing contest where someone should meet your desires and demands for some reason.

c) Chances of meeting your desires have been low in the start and have recently fallen to zero, lowered by your own choices.

d) I will sleep fine with any further windmills you may come up with, and let them go past this point.

Have a nice week.

 

[Fabricio Morato]

Hey Hrvoje, your work so far looks great! Any ETA for the Helium version? Looking forward. Tnks.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Olá Fabricio, thank you.
It is difficult to predict timing, too much variables. Working on it...

 

[Wayne Morellini]

So, what exactly is the dimensions of the product, in concise terms? I'm not able to read much at the moment.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

So, what exactly is the dimensions of the product, in concise terms? I'm not able to read much at the moment.

You may think of these tools as per-source and target designed highly complex multiband EQ and compressor. Plus a few other tools all fused into one. Working in 3D and re-shaping the signal to dimensions defined by the target viewing standard. Just assimilating that is not an easy task. Actually making it so it works as intended is a brainmelt.

My chief audio engineer studio buddy has issues with compressor analogy due to dynamic nature of audio compression and time domain but principles are the same.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

OK, so not really just something to right Sony balance issues, or enhance image, but to conform the output to the target standard Are all those in there Hrvoje?

How does it do this differently from other programs Hrvoje?

 

[Fabricio Morato]

Hey Hrvoje, tnks for taking the time to reply. No worries about it, when its ready its ready. I was just asking because I have a few jobs this month that could benefit from it.
Anyways, keep up the good work.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

OK, so not really just something to right Sony balance issues, or enhance image, but to conform the output to the target standard Are all those in there Hrvoje?

There is a bunch of stuff in, which fixes the image to a possible extent, while mapping it to a standard.

How does it do this differently from other programs Hrvoje?

Gamma/gamut conversion tools are something else and do not correct camera-specific image offsets and "auto" chart based algorithms are rudimentary, dumb, borderline usable and fundamentally flawed.

Hey Hrvoje, tnks for taking the time to reply. No worries about it, when its ready its ready. I was just asking because I have a few jobs this month that could benefit from it.
Anyways, keep up the good work.

Thanks Fabricio.

 

[Aharon Rothschild]

This is a 3dLUT. There are many of these out there and most are film emulations. You can create your own 3DLUT is resolve by grading a shot and right clicking on it in the color page and exporting.
These Omeneo LUTS are LOG to REC709 and are tweaked for subjectively better color and don't seem to fully expand contrast to REC709 so they could be useful to color on top of provided they are not overly destructive causing banding or breakup etc. For anyone looking to build something similar in resolve I would recommend building a look by rolling back highlights and tweaking color with hue vs hue and hue vs saturation, setting up a mild s curve for a pleasing correction that can be exported as a LUT and used on set etc.

 

[Anton Shavlik]

Resolve's grading tools cannot do everything that a 3D LUT can do just because resolve's can be exported as a LUT.

Resolve's curves and tools are all 2D projections of the 3D colors, something like trying to carve a 3D shape by only looking at its shadows and rotating it to different angles. HSV qualifiers can get you closer but you can't see if you've smoothly blended them into the '3d' shape of the colors.

 

[Aharon Rothschild]

http://3dlutcreator.com/ is great for that.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

http://3dlutcreator.com/ is great for that.

You mean using 3D Lutcreator instead of Primers?

 

[Aharon Rothschild]

It's a useful tool. Resolve is a useful tool. The Omeno Luts may be a useful tool provided they are not too destructive. I want to point out here that there is a good reason red color and gamma have evolved over the years and with so much effort.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

It's a useful tool. Resolve is a useful tool. The Omeno Luts may be a useful tool provided they are not too destructive. I want to point out here that there is a good reason red color and gamma have evolved over the years and with so much effort.

I have no doubt.
It's just that I don't understand how this 3D Lutcreator fits in this particular scenario - Improving the camera's image.

 

[Aharon Rothschild]

I don't see how a LUT which works outside of the SDK and debayer fits in this particular scenario - Improving the camera's image.

 

[Mike Nagel]

I have no doubt.
It's just that I don't understand how this 3D Lutcreator fits in this particular scenario - Improving the camera's image.

Don't lose the actual goal out of sight: artistic intent. Everything is just aids of getting us there. Some cameras may give you more trouble in fully achieving the desired artistic intent, because of certain inherent characteristics or limitations or because of specific lighting situations .

Camera optimization can generally be done (by 3rd party devs) to some degree. A LUT is limiting (but better than nothing) compared to full control (--> new RED SDK with new color science, optimized at debayer stage). This right here is static adjustments, ergo various versions of the LUT solution. And naturally, it can never compensate for ur particular unit variation of: sensor, OLPF etc etc etc

Like Aharon said: this here is one out of many tools - and many of these other tools will do a much more suitable job for a given shot. Just look at all the example shots in this thread. Very easy to see. And those are handpicked examples.

Try it out, see if u like the result. If u wanna see what the LUT does simply run it through a LUT analyzer. But all not needed, just look at the image, and see if the solution aids u in achieving ur artistic intent.