Improper shutdown with Anton Bauer batteries

[Nawaf Alsabhan]

I got Anton Bauer Dionic 90, and usually around 12.5 volts it would just shut down all of a sudden, without any warnings, voltage's color doesn't change to yellow or red, I have had 4 or 5 takes that were just cut off due to power loss.Other Anton Bauer users, does this happen often? Is this normal? Or do you get warning or color changing for voltage?I still don't know what the last cut off for voltage is, I know it's around 12.5, but not sure point what to be exact.I'm using a jetpack to connect the Anton Bauerhttp://www.switronix.com/products?p...age=flypage.tpl&product_id=171&category_id=38Also, is it normal that it takes more than 3 hours to fill up the power of one 90 watt battery, but use it for around 60-90 minutes?

 

[John Ritter]

It sounds like the battery is doing a thermal overload (heat) shut down, this is common with older packs that have depleted cells,
or even new packs if they are overloaded. Safe continuous working load for the Dionic 90 is 50 watts, above this load operation results can get erratic.
You should be able to feel if the battery is warm to hot

What is the total load applied to the battery; Camera plus all attached accessories? most Red camera configurations are at the limit of the Dionic 90
load bearing capacity.

3 to 5 hours will be a normal charging time to achieve 100% full charge depending on the model of charger used.


Regards John Ritter
www.ritterbattery.com

 

[ericyoung]

If you swap out batteries before they are fully depleted (say at 20 to 40%), you can often charge them up faster as the charger doesn't have to do so much checking and balancing for a deeply discharged battery.

Also, the last 5 to 10% takes much longer as the charger ramps down the charging current to avoid overcharging - so when it gets to 90% charge the battery is probably OK to use.

 

[Nawaf Alsabhan]

It sounds like the battery is doing a thermal overload (heat) shut down, this is common with older packs that have depleted cells,
or even new packs if they are overloaded. Safe continuous working load for the Dionic 90 is 50 watts, above this load operation results can get erratic.
You should be able to feel if the battery is warm to hot

What is the total load applied to the battery; Camera plus all attached accessories? most Red camera configurations are at the limit of the Dionic 90
load bearing capacity.

Your right, the batteries are usually very warm when the camera shuts down, but on it's display it's displays that it's out of energy, could it be both?
One of the batteries I bought used from BH, the other 2 are new, they all have the same issue, is there a fix to the problem?
I only use Red Epic, the 5" Red touch screen, and side handle.
Also, I have set up the new power savings options (firmware V4) but the camera doesn't go to sleep, and it doesn't display anything for low power warning even though I set it up to do that, is it because it's Anton Bauer batteries ?

If you swap out batteries before they are fully depleted (say at 20 to 40%), you can often charge them up faster as the charger doesn't have to do so much checking and balancing for a deeply discharged battery.

Also, the last 5 to 10% takes much longer as the charger ramps down the charging current to avoid overcharging - so when it gets to 90% charge the battery is probably OK to use.

That's a good tip, but what is 20 to 40%? My camera displays in Voltages, usually starts from 15.8, down to around 12.6.

 

[Peter Strietmann]

Looks like you are using a side handle. If so put a red volt in there to prevent the camera from powering down and you can hot swap the bauer.

 

[Nawaf Alsabhan]

Looks like you are using a side handle. If so put a red volt in there to prevent the camera from powering down and you can hot swap the bauer.

Thanks for the tip, I'll be doing that

 

[John Ritter]

Check out the attached chart's (amp hour, watt hour, time in minutes)
They are showing the discharge curve for a new Dionic 90 battery under a 5 amp load (approximately 65 watts) this is about what an Epic or Scarlet alone will draw with only a monitor attached.
The shut down at 12.5V approximate is normal for this load and temp of battery (it is being maxed out)

After 10-20 cycles this graph will degrade and continue to do so till the battery is no longer usable
Continuous discharge at a high load like this will shorten the battery life.

This is not an Anton Bauer Battery issue, this will apply to just about all Li-ion packs within this same power rating.

All the Li-ion packs drop dramatically after reaching the 13 volt level (the higher the load the more dramatic the drop in voltage)

You will need to manage the 90 watt batteries better or switch/change to higher capacity packs.

You will see just about the same results with any 90 watt Li-ion pack no matter who manufactures it.

Please note I made an error in the chart title it should read "Dionic 90 New cells 6.3AH not 7.5Ah" the Dionic 90 is a 6.3AH battery not 7.5
the test result is correct. The vertical drop at the end indicates internal battery shut down.


Regards John Ritter
www.ritterbattery

 

[Nawaf Alsabhan]

Check out the attached chart's (amp hour, watt hour, time in minutes)
They are showing the discharge curve for a new Dionic 90 battery under a 5 amp load (approximately 65 watts) this is about what an Epic or Scarlet alone will draw with only a monitor attached.
The shut down at 12.5V approximate is normal for this load and temp of battery (it is being maxed out)

After 10-20 cycles this graph will degrade and continue to do so till the battery is no longer usable
Continuous discharge at a high load like this will shorten the battery life.

This is not an Anton Bauer Battery issue, this will apply to just about all Li-ion packs within this same power rating.

All the Li-ion packs drop dramatically after reaching the 13 volt level (the higher the load the more dramatic the drop in voltage)

You will need to manage the 90 watt batteries better or switch/change to higher capacity packs.

You will see just about the same results with any 90 watt Li-ion pack no matter who manufactures it.

Please note I made an error in the chart title it should read "Dionic 90 New cells 6.3AH not 7.5Ah" the Dionic 90 is a 6.3AH battery not 7.5
the test result is correct. The vertical drop at the end indicates internal battery shut down.


Regards John Ritter
www.ritterbattery

Thanks John, Seems like I should switch batteries at 13 volts, good to know.
Is there a way to change the color scheme in red epic for voltages, ie. red for 13 volts, yellow for 13.5 ?
I think the current settings are yellow for 12 volts, and I never see it turn yellow to warn me.

 

[John Ritter]

"Is there a way to change the color scheme in red epic for voltages, ie. red for 13 volts, yellow for 13.5 ?
I think the current settings are yellow for 12 volts, and I never see it turn yellow to warn me. "

I do not know the answer to this as I am not knowledgeable enough with the settings and menu options,
Hopefully another user with experience can help with this question.


Regards John Ritter
www.ritterbattery.com

 

[ericyoung]

I would swap batteries around 13.3V to 13.5V then, rather than wait until it hits 13V.

You can get round the high current draw on a single lower capacity battery by running two in parallel on a "dumb" hot swap plate, then swapping to two new ones (one at a time!) when they reach 13.3V ish.
Anton Bauer have a dumb hot swap plate in their product range.

 

[Nawaf Alsabhan]

I would swap batteries around 13.3V to 13.5V then, rather than wait until it hits 13V.

You can get round the high current draw on a single lower capacity battery by running two in parallel on a "dumb" hot swap plate, then swapping to two new ones (one at a time!) when they reach 13.3V ish.
Anton Bauer have a dumb hot swap plate in their product range.

Which hot swap plate where you referring to? I found one, but for the Arri Alexa.

 

[ericyoung]

Which hot swap plate where you referring to? I found one, but for the Arri Alexa.

Not sure - Panavision UK supply it with their older rental Epic-Ms. Will check next time I'm on a job with them. I might be wrong, and it may be a smart hotswap, but I'm pretty sure it isn't as it drains both batteries simultaneously.

 

[Rex Lint]

My Epic will not hop swap from the Anton to the red volt. Is there a setting I am missing?

 

[Mike P.]

Rex, I seem to recall this being an issue with early side-handles. Is it dying when you disconnect the Anton before it's fully dead or are you running it down to "0%"?

One thing I've noticed is that if the v-mount (not AB mind you) battery depletes fully, towards the end it flickers between the v-mount and the sidehandle/redvolt. After flicking back and forth between the two sources, it's sometimes too fast for the "hot swap" and the camera will power down. In other words, you should be swapping before the non-RV batteries are actually dead.