IMAX /IMAX 3D

[Gavin Greenwalt]

just a last thing: I'm always comparing apples to apples, meaning (theoretically) same sensor to same sensor, just a different size of that sensor... Dragon 6K vs. Dragon 8K.

Yes and on the same sensor the 8k will have "less noise" and therefore be "more sensitive". Why? Because all else being equal you can downsample an 8k image to 6k and blend different photosite's noise into reduced noise just like RED's frame averaging mode only it's pixel averaging mode. The Alexa 65 will be "Less noisy" than an Alexa with an identical sensor for the same reasons.

So why do u think Nolan still (partially) shoots 65/70mm ? because he can't "match the shot like u" on 35mm.... ?

Because Nolan is shooting on film which is really soft. The only way Nolan can get 6k worth of resolved detail is to shoot with 70mm. He could match the shots just fine. In fact most of Nolan's films on IMAX are stopped down to showcase the resolution not its theoretical shallow depth of field look. Look at the opening to Dark Knight in IMAX it's very deep depth of field. If Nolan could shoot Super35 but get the same resolution I'm sure he would mail back all of the IMAX cameras. It's the same reason ARRI went 65mm. It's not for the look. It's for the resolution. If Arri could have maintained the Alexa look on a 6.5k sensor they would have done that. They would have trumpeted how they had allowed cinematographers to use their top of the class Master Prime lenses as a marketing feature.

Are u saying that if I drop u off in palm Springs with a 7D and a Canon Zoom that a week later when I pick u up I would see the next "Lawrence of Arabia" in all it's 70mm glory ? ;-)

Are you saying that if I drop you off in Palm Springs with an IMAX camera a week later I would be able to see the next "Lawrence of Arabia?". That's a stupid question. If you dropped me off in Palm Springs with an IMAX sized 8k Dragon and a VV sized 8k Dragon I would be able to match the VV to the IMAX and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

If someone wants to shoot film and get the film look they have no choice but to shoot 70mm if they want an 8k frame.
If someone wants to shoot Alexa and get the Alexa look they have no choide but to shoot 65mm if they want a 6.5k frame.
If someone wants to shoot RED and get the Dragon look they can get the same FOV and DOF as the Alexa65 or IMAX film but in 8k on a Vistavision sensor.

The original question was whether or not you could match the look. You can... in so far as any Dragon sensor can "match" the look of an Arri sensor or film. But that's not a product of sensor size that's just a product of different capture mediums.

 

[Mike Nagel]

Nolan obviously shoots 35mm... he uses large formats for specific shots. We all know why. All listed here.

Regarding ur Palm Springs trip - btw, sun lotion is on me ;-) :

it would be rather 14K IMAX W vs. 8K VV W - if we use the current 5 micron pixel pitch... 14K 70mm plane vs. 8K 40mm plane... (isn't it obvious...)

so NO, u won't (fully) match the final look - because as u finally agreed - what I've been posting since page 1 - u will at least sacrifice one IQ factor: higher res. Cleaner image, 1/4 - 1/2 stop more DR when downsampled. All part of the look.

naturally, chances are u will run into any of the other problems before that: CA, distortion, softer image, exposure, DOF etc...

That is why peeps - if they can afford - skip all the crap and simply shoot on the larger sensor format.

but it sounds like ur shooting controlled studio only still on a 1/2.3" sensor with a 1-5000 mm zoom lens ? ;-))))

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

You've completely lost sight of the question at hand. Would a 14k Dragon look better than an 8k Dragon? Sure. But a 100k Dragon would look better than a 14k Dragon. A 10,000,000k Dragon the size of a bus would look even better yet. There are only a handful of factors to consider:

Sharpness: [FF35] Dragon is arguably as sharp as projected IMAX Film. It's sharper than IMAX's digital camera a tweaked Alexa 65. So your "sharper image" vs the competition is void. 8k Dragon is the sharpest digital option available.
CA, Distortion: [Tie] Modern Full Frame lenses are incredibly low CA. I would wager that an Otus and a Hasselblad are neck and neck for chromatic abberations. The Otus might have an uphill battle but it's got Zeiss investing 10x as much in its development.
Exposure: [Tie] Larger Format has the advantage of a larger sensor. FF/VV has the advantage of faster lenses. The two cancel each other out.
FOV: [Tie] Identical.
DOF: [Tie] Identical. The fastest Medium Format lenses are so much slower than the fastest tack sharp FF/VV lenses that you can get identical DOF in either.
Noise: [Large Format] Yes large format will have less noise all else being equal but not all else is equal. Dragon and Alexa are both cleaner than film by a lot. So yes a VV Dragon is slightly noisier than imaginary IMAX sized Dragon that doesn't exist would be but who cares, it's low enough noise to beat film which nobody is going to argue isn't worthy of IMAX.

So to answer the original question. Yes, you can shoot Dragon VV and yes it'll look like "IMAX" mike is right, RED could hypothetically build an even bigger sensor but then you'll get a bigger camera, have to use heavier lenses and you're right back to a giant unwieldy camera that you're trying to avoid. I would say a tiny bit of extra noise is worth the benefits of shooting with smaller lighter rigs.