I'm curious. . . who here on RED User is certain they will be buying an Epic X?

[Stephen Williams]

I submitted my camera reservation form only after Mike reported from NAB that there were already a few hundred reservations. At least then I won't be the only one to fall for the "scam."
:

Hi,

Serial no 561 would have been reserved during IBC in September not at NAB.

Stephen

 

[Brian Reisdorf]

Tim, your post was very disjointed, your language was harsh, and your conclusions were obviously quickly reached, and faulty. Yes I had some fun at your expense, but really, you did everything but ask for it. You jump on an extensive forum and instead of looking for the information you seek, you post what amounts to ranting about things you didn't bother to try to understand in the first place? The information is out there, and it is rather easy to find. Asking for it in the way you did is not discussion nor debate, and it did nothing to further the topic at hand.

I would have happily told you exactly what I thought of your post if we were aquianted, as I typically point out to my friends when they do something odd, or possibly foolish, for there own good, as they do me. A little refinement of your thoughts, a bit of research, and a little more time editing your posts would go a long way towards clearly communicating the nature and tone of your questions next time...all of which would almost certain receive a more effective response.

Almost forgot...
+10 pts - Threatening lawsuit.
+10 pts - Threatening physical harm 'in real life'.

Nice start! At 100 'internet tough guy points' you get a fruit basket



In any case, I'm done busting your chops, I suppose I'm just slightly bitter about the quality of these forums these days. I'm all for helping people out , but a bit of tough love on some of the new folks would go a long way to decrease the amount of noise and repeated questions here to a large degree...I'm kinda surprised that's not the case already given that it's essentially Jim's very own style. Oh well.

 

[Curran Giddens]

Hi,

Serial no 561 would have been reserved during IBC in September not at NAB.

Stephen

You are correct, as usual.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Tim, your post was very disjointed, your language was harsh, and your conclusions were obviously quickly reached, and faulty. Yes I had some fun at your expense, but really, you did everything but ask for it.

Let's give it a rest, guys. It's done. Brian, you have more than made your point and your altered quotations of Tim's post are just not cool. That's pretty much a guaranteed nomination for reduser douchebag of the week.

As for the state of the forums these days, noise, etc.. I'm afraid there's nothing that can be done. Us mods could run through the forums and just start deleting every post that amounts to "noise", but then we would have an incoherent mess -- more so than we do now. And I think we would piss off everyone in doing so. There is always a certain unavoidable level of noise or chatter in a venue like this. The noise floor raises with every new member that signs on. More people = more noise. If you all feel that I should start eliminating some noise, I may as well start by deleting this entire thread.

And to get back on topic... I said above, I would probably buy Scarlet FF35 and then hold out to trade in my RED One for Epic 645. Probably not getting Epic-X. That still may work, but I have a hunch that I may just pick up an Epic-X, too. I guess that depends on how far away Monstro appears to be when my Epic-X number comes up. I'd probably save the trade-in of my One for that 645, though, not that it really matters, but depending on which cameras arrive when, I may more may not want to keep my RED One as long.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Thanks Jeff- Your assessment needs no further commentary.

I have only been on here less than a month because I did not want to waste anybody's time until I was in a position to make a purchase. I have spent dozens of hours a week this month researching and already have 32 posts and several threads started...

I have found 99% of people on here amenable, helpful and positive.

With the occasional "privileged" user, thinking somehow they were superior because they found about RED before I did.

Especially amusing is that the LOUDEST ones have nearly a two years head start, but very few posts... For instance, I already have 25% as many posts as he does.

32 in a month versus - his 127 since 2007.

I again thank you for the intelligent and helpful comments in helping me to make a decision.

That said... I have NOT noticed one single user pick EPIC 617... its almost too intimidating I think...

I am fascinated to see how this all shakes out, REDCODE wise with that 617 sensor It certainly opens up some opportunities in visual effects that could make the Matrix look like TRON. But where do you do your online? NASA or NORAD's super computer?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

That said... I have NOT noticed one single user pick EPIC 617... its almost too intimidating I think...

There's a few of us who are very interested in the 617. I am, I know that Offhollywood is and I'm sure many others. I have a couple ideas that would be perfectly suited to that camera that I'm not willing to share at this time. :tongue:

Additionally, the 617 would be a phenomenal replacement for 617 panoramic film cameras. It would be the ultimate tool for digital signage, large format print, billboards, you name it. In the next few years, I predict we're going to see a huge increase in digital projection, large electronic billboard systems and more. This is THE CAMERA for that. Oh yeah, it would be perfect for VFX work too. The 617 is definitely on my "buy list", provided I can line up the jobs and the funds. I will probably rent one a time or two before making the purchase.

 

[Häakon]

Im simply trying to determine whether to buy NEW or pay a premium for a EARLY Serial number as I want an EPIC... in case you havent figured it out.

Hi,

You don't need an early serial number (or even a RED ONE at all, for that matter) to buy an EPIC. You do need to purchase a RED ONE if you want an EPIC-X. And the earlier the serial number RED ONE you have, the earlier you have an opportunity to take possession of an EPIC-X. But there are other EPIC choices available which do not require having purchased a RED ONE. How quickly you want it is the only real question.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Thanks... no worries about stealing your IP here, my focus is on providing Oregon's first facility dedicated to Independent Narrative and Documentary Filmmaking.

This is a big commercial town, and while I have nothing against that, there is also an amazingly robust film community here, but very few affordable resources.

There are about 12 Red One's as well, so we want an EPIC and 2 Scarlett's so we can cover every budget range from $50K to $5M features.

Thats the plan anyway. In this economy, who knows.

Meantime, I would love to be a fly on the wall at Sony or Panasonic or Canon or JVC

when they saw this announcement for RED EPIC and SCARLET.

The next couple years are going to be exciting, that is for sure!

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

PS. Brian- you will be glad to know, I just found the SEARCH button on the top
of the user boards...

Cant believe I missed that, I was looking for a search box and could never find one.

DOH! my bad

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

In the next few years, I predict we're going to see a huge increase in digital projection, large electronic billboard systems and more.

So in essence, RED is essentially helping bring those eerie DRINK COKE... and VIST THE OFFWORLD COLONIES billboards from BLADE RUNNER to life...??

Yes, I do see the projection and exhibition experience being turned on its ear as well, then throw in 3-D and basically REPLICANTS will be walking the earth as actors will finally be out of jobs... machines will then take over our world,
humans will then blacken the sky to cut their power source... hmmm

and it all started with an idea to invent a modular and affordable digital film camera....

 

[Alex Carr]

#778 will be upgrading to Epic X. My intention was never to make a profit off of my rental Package. I have always used my red to get me a job vs. just renting it out.

DP's who love the images from Red One will love a 35mm Sensor with a Higher Bitrate, and will likely ask for more if it is available. Plus it makes your package much more desirable against the other ~2000+ cameras in LA.

A normal Rental is not as much of an adventure as being a 1st AC with your camera out of the country.

 

[Brian Reisdorf]

PS. Brian- you will be glad to know, I just found the SEARCH button on the top
of the user boards...

Cant believe I missed that, I was looking for a search box and could never find one.

DOH! my bad

Good deal Tim, your other post just rubbed me the wrong way given the rash of new members 'jumping in the deep end without learning how to swim' if you will. There's nothing wrong with questions if you can't find the answers though, that's what we're here for. There's an incredible wealth of information already here, which is also coincidently why I have so few posts of my own. Virtually any question can be answered with a couple quick searches.

That said, enjoy losing a week or so digging through over all the info buried in the site!

 

[Shawn Nelson]

I'll be getting the Epic X. Hopefully the shipping is delayed a bit to let me get some coin, as I never even broke even on #27x, so I may need to go knock over a few old ladies or sell a child to get the funds, but it should happen.

I'll probably end up shipping my EpicX #27 to NY to recoup the costs during those critical first few months. That was my big fuck up with Red, I was determined to rent to the Portland market. Biiigggg mistake, Portland 'experts' would call me, talk to me, email me and then not rent. Instead they'd pay MORE than what I was asking to get a 5 year old Varicam setup. Now that it's accepted, they rent from the rental shops that can pair the camera with $60k of accessories (plus the $40k Red package) along with grip&elec, etc.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'll probably end up shipping my EpicX #27 to NY to recoup the costs during those critical first few months. That was my big fuck up with Red, I was determined to rent to the Portland market. Biiigggg mistake, Portland 'experts' would call me, talk to me, email me and then not rent. Instead they'd pay MORE than what I was asking to get a 5 year old Varicam setup. Now that it's accepted, they rent from the rental shops that can pair the camera with $60k of accessories (plus the $40k Red package) along with grip&elec, etc.

Yeah, I think that's a good move, Shawn. It's tough to rent out a camera package unless you have all the support gear, accessories, glass, etc.. to go with it. You have a nice early number and could recover some of your investment rather quickly, maybe even all of your upgrade costs to go to Epic-X I think, if you place your camera with a rental house in NY or LA for a few months.

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

So what's wrong with me? I don't really even like to rent out our two REDs. I just rent them locally to friends from time to time, but even then I get the willies. I'm not quite sure how I'd deal with having to ship my pups all over the country on rentals.

As for Epic-X, I've really enjoyed reading the comments and reasons behind the comments here so far. I'm literally torn. The camera I want. . . 5K S35 Monstro. . . won't be made by RED, so I really don't quite know what to do with the Epic-X. I'll probably go the Epic-X route for a specialty (high speed camera) and then buy the 6K Scarlet FF35 when it comes out, but, again, that's not what I want.

I still have time to decide, and RED still has time to rectify the non-Monstro 5K S35 error, but I don't know when I've been so torn on a decision in my life!

This is crazy. Or is it just me that's crazy?

Stephen

 

[Steve Gal]

So what's wrong with me? I don't really even like to rent out our two REDs. I just rent them locally to friends from time to time, but even then I get the willies. I'm not quite sure how I'd deal with having to ship my pups all over the country on rentals.

As for Epic-X, I've really enjoyed reading the comments and reasons behind the comments here so far. I'm literally torn. The camera I want. . . 5K S35 Monstro. . . won't be made by RED, so I really don't quite know what to do with the Epic-X. I'll probably go the Epic-X route for a specialty (high speed camera) and then buy the 6K Scarlet FF35 when it comes out, but, again, that's not what I want.

I still have time to decide, and RED still has time to rectify the non-Monstro 5K S35 error, but I don't know when I've been so torn on a decision in my life!

This is crazy. Or is it just me that's crazy?

Stephen

You have to close your eyes and pick one and then never look back.

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

Why don't you just pick it for me?

"Hey, Mary! We've got to spring for an Epic-X!"

"But why?"

"Cause the guys on REDUser all said so, that's why."

That ought to work out just fine.



Stephen

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

So what's wrong with me? I don't really even like to rent out our two REDs. I just rent them locally to friends from time to time, but even then I get the willies. I'm not quite sure how I'd deal with having to ship my pups all over the country on rentals.

No, you're not alone... I get the willies renting my camera out. It's actually only gone out once without me along as DIT, AC or operator. I don't ship the camera, just rent in the local area. The market for RED is pretty saturated in the US these days. There were no killer rental earnings to be made by the time my #1110 shipped. These days, people don't hire me for the camera, only had two jobs I'm aware of where me owning the RED was a factor. I've received more work for owning a Cooke 18-100 than I have for owning the RED One. And I wouldn't recommend anyone pick up that lens if they think it will get them work. It won't... I'm just sayin that people call asking about that lens more than they call asking about the camera.

The camera I want. . . 5K S35 Monstro. . . won't be made by RED, so I really don't quite know what to do with the Epic-X.

I've said it in one or two other threads before, but... You do realize that the camera you describe is most likely the Epic-X, right? Think about it. What is the difference between the Mysterium-X and Monstro sensor, that we know of? Monstro has increased DR, that seems to be the big thing that people are looking at. It is potentially faster in terms of read/reset times and it looks like it can offer some higher frame rates. But look at it this way: The Monstro has larger photosites - almost 17% larger. What if shrinking the Monstro photosites down to 5 microns to give the 5K @ S35 gave it the same DR and imaging properties of Mysterium-X? What if Monstro is in fact the same sensor design as the Mysterium-X, but with larger photosites to increase sensitivity and DR? The increased sensitivity could then allow for a faster ADC->DSP pipeline, thus increasing read/reset times and delivering overall better specs, faster frame rates, etc.. But at the expense of resolution.

RED most likely will offer an S35-sized Monstro sensor. However, it will mostly likely come as an upgrade to the RED One. It will provide increased DR at a lower resolution. That figures out to roughly 4.2K instead of 4.5K. Which means the current 4K window we are used to would actually be 3.8K. Still plenty to give good 2K~3K results out of the RED One.

I'll probably go the Epic-X route for a specialty (high speed camera) and then buy the 6K Scarlet FF35 when it comes out, but, again, that's not what I want.

If you don't really need both cameras, wouldn't it make more sense to just buy the Epic FF35?

This is crazy. Or is it just me that's crazy?

It is a bit crazy. IMO, I think RED should keep the Scarlet line just as it is planned. But I think they should only offer the EPIC FF35, 645 and 617. The EPIC S35 and EPIC-X just seem like a misfit offering to me. ...Just my $0.02.

Quite honestly, if they had never announced an EPIC S35 or the EPIC-X loyalty package, I don't think anyone would be requesting an S35 monstro EPIC. Instead the perception would be more like, "Hey! they went to FULL FRAME! Woooohooooo!

Of course, then there would probably be the crowd who would want a Mysterium-X based EPIC camera and that group would be whining because they don't want to pay the extra for Monstro, but want the frame rates and features of EPIC and there's already an S35 Mysterium-X in Scarlet and blah, blah, blah...

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Why don't you just pick it for me?

"Hey, Mary! We've got to spring for an Epic-X!"

"But why?"

"Cause the guys on REDUser all said so, that's why."

That ought to work out just fine.



Stephen

Internet peer pressure is great reason to buy things

What? It worked for me on the cigar boards! Lol :innocent:

 

[Curran Giddens]

The camera I want. . . 5K S35 Monstro. . . won't be made by RED . . .

You are right. It won't be made. It is impossible to fit 5K resolution in an S35 frame size because of Monstro's larger photosites.