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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I'm back, politely

And what about the new Optimo 45-120 zoom? It seems amazing, but it's also over $45k. I guess I'm just a bit frustrated they won't be releasing a DP version anytime soon (which seems like most of their current and future sales are going to be - the DP line) ....

Anyway, good to have you back Mitch. Got a lot out of your posts and verbal jousting with Mark and others :)
 
Any jousting from now on will be for the benefit of the REDuser community. (Unless maybe someone from BandPro wants to have some fun in a Poetry Slam, but that's probably better offline...)

The Angenieux looks very nice as well. I'm actually involved with something on this tomorrow. It's so fun to get to play with the new toys!

Sorry it is not the next greatest thing at the lowest possible price. Angenieux has to stay in business too. I'm sure they carefully considered what kind of lens to make and at what price. I can tell you that they had to bring on new tech to make this lens happen. The original team did not think it physically possible to make this size and focal length lens at this performance.
 
Hey Mitch,

Points taken. And of course I understand they have to stay in business - and I agree, it's a remarkable feat at that size, especially if the quality matches their other zooms (which I'm sure it will.)

I guess I was just saying that - even on a business level - it would seem smarter to be focusing more on the DP line, which seems to be exploding (hard to find Rouges anywhere now) and will grow even more once more Epics, Alexas, etc are released and 3D keeps growing in all market niches.

Then again, who am I to be telling them how to run their business. Thanks for the response and look forward to further impressions from you on all the "toys"!
 
Why would they offer lower priced version now if they are presold way into the 2012 and no signs of slowing down...
They are not a charity institution but for profit business....
 
OptiTek said:
Why would they offer lower priced version now if they are presold way into the 2012 and no signs of slowing down...
They are not a charity institution but for profit business....
Click to expand...

Because a lower-priced version would have to cut some corners to reduce the price. And when corners are cut they could probably increase volume by expanding their talent pool/manufacturing options.
 
Welcome Back Mitch!!!
I must say I'll miss your "spice"
 
Jarred, can I get a no-fault ban, say for a week or 10 days? If it doesn't count against the penal code three-strikes rule, I would really appreciate a short nolo contendere ban to spur me to polish up a play I've almost finished and to work on my movie script.

Thanks in advance.

For anyone thinking I lack willpower or I would simply ban myself, let me just say that it takes tremendous willpower to ASK to be banned.
 
OptiTek said:
Why would they offer lower priced version now if they are presold way into the 2012 and no signs of slowing down...
They are not a charity institution but for profit business....
Click to expand...

I think Gavin understands. Read Evin Grant's thread. Everybody (at least Redusers, which is a BIG chunk of the owner operator/market) thought a DP version of the 45-120 would be an absolute slam dunk at $30k or so. I'm NOT suggesting that they offer "charity" or don't make money -- quite the opposite.

Jacek, do you believe they are not profiting from their DP Rouge lineup? With nearly every 3D production using them, and being hard to find anywhere, I would guess that these are their two best selling products right now.

Besides, what does "pre-sold into 2012" really mean? That says very little about their volume of pre-sales on the current 45-120 and even less about the potential volume of a DP version - especially once Stage 2 and 3 kicks in and there are literally thousands of lens-hungry Epic owners out there, many of whom work in digital 3D.

Look, I don't want to derail so I'll leave it at this ... I'm all for a business making money. And I'm all for charging what something is worth (whether it's the Epic-M, Leicas, 3D rigs, or whatever) - I never complain about price. What I'm questioning is focusing on a lens that SEEMS to be priced at a premium in order to work on both film and digital, rather than focusing on the digital-only (DP) line -- which is where I would speculate a good % of their sales (and even more in the future) come from.

Am I making sense? And what got me wondering about this is that they responded that "IF" they do release a DP version, it won't be for YEARS - i.e. 2014 or beyond.

So I'm a bit perplexed because again, I feel like a DP set with a 15-42 + 45-120 would sell extremely well for them, even at $50,000.

Now, I say all this with some caveats ... 1) They may have started development on this years ago, and did not foresee how big the demand for affordable DP line would be ... 2) this assumes they could make a cheaper DP version with similar size/specs/performance. Maybe they just can't scale up production and cut costs like the 15-42 and 30-80 ...

Anyway, sorry to derail your welcome back Mitch. Then again, this kind of contentious thread about really awesome gear is right up your alley - so perhaps it's only fitting :)
 
The process for Angenieux or any optical firm to manufacture a lens is a complicated and drawn out one. Lens manufactures tend to think in months and quarters where we count in days and weeks. They make long range forecasts, invest in parts and tooling and aquire staff as they can see appropriate. If they overestimate a product's sales then it can be a slow and painful stab into the company, so they tend to be very conservative. It is much more secure for them to be heavily backordered.

Jacek is right. Most Angenieux product ordered today is close to eight months out at the moment. It's not like they can say today "Hey, let's ramp up production and get these things out the door." It just doesn't work that way. They build them as fast as they can based on a variety of factors. So we're already taklng orders for the 45-120 and response has been very positive from NAB & CineGear. Angenieux will likely be building them as fast as they can and still have a backlog.

So tell me why they should start with a lower cost DP version again?
 
Elsie N said:
Jarred, can I get a no-fault ban, say for a week or 10 days? If it doesn't count against the penal code three-strikes rule, I would really appreciate a short nolo contendere ban to spur me to polish up a play I've almost finished and to work on my movie script.

Thanks in advance.

For anyone thinking I lack willpower or I would simply ban myself, let me just say that it takes tremendous willpower to ASK to be banned.
Click to expand...


Elsie, if you want some advice on ways to get yourself banned, I'm happy to help.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Elsie, if you want some advice on ways to get yourself banned, I'm happy to help.
Click to expand...
Heh, heh. Actually, I'm a two-time loser. That's why I was trying to get sent off gently and without prejudice. You know, in case they have a three-strike rule.

One thing that impressed me about your ban, however, was how many Redusers lobbied for your re-reinstatement. I don't know you personally but that says a lot about you. Glad you made it back.
 
Mitch Gross said:
The process for Angenieux or any optical firm to manufacture a lens is a complicated and drawn out one. Lens manufactures tend to think in months and quarters where we count in days and weeks. They make long range forecasts, invest in parts and tooling and aquire staff as they can see appropriate. If they overestimate a product's sales then it can be a slow and painful stab into the company, so they tend to be very conservative. It is much more secure for them to be heavily backordered.

Jacek is right. Most Angenieux product ordered today is close to eight months out at the moment. It's not like they can say today "Hey, let's ramp up production and get these things out the door." It just doesn't work that way. They build them as fast as they can based on a variety of factors. So we're already taklng orders for the 45-120 and response has been very positive from NAB & CineGear. Angenieux will likely be building them as fast as they can and still have a backlog.

So tell me why they should start with a lower cost DP version again?
Click to expand...

Alright Mitch, you got me. I must admit, part of my thinking is they are somewhat like Apple or another tech company that can and must "ramp up" according to demand. And demand for DP lenses seems to be higher across the board right now, especially when you look beyond rental companies to actual owner operators. In other words, it would be like Apple focusing on the Mac Pro when they could sell way more new iPads (as many as they can make), though that's not the best comparison, just first that comes to mind.

I guess high-end lenses are one part science/manufacturing and another part "art" - no matter how good you get at the former, you can't allow it to compromise the latter ... otherwise the lens ceases to be the fine artistic tool the brand has been built upon.

Thanks for the insights -- this is why it's nice to have you back :)
 
Alright Mitch, how did you do that?
I said the same thing and and got lectured like a kid.
My hat's off to you...
 
OptiTek said:
Alright Mitch, how did you do that?
I said the same thing and and got lectured like a kid.
My hat's off to you...
Click to expand...

Lectured like a kid? Moi? Jacek I would never lecture someone of your stature :)

Sorry you did not same the same thing. The difference was that Mitch provided SPECIFICS about the way the lens industry works - which you probably knew - but did not think worth mentioning.

Instead you belittled my post by implying I saw them as a "charity" despite the fact that on Evin's NAB lens roundup many others (all of whom are very serious professionals with extensive lens experience) were wondering the exact same thing I was, and eager for a DP version. I am far from the only one wondering this, which is why Tonaci emailed Angenieux recently and posted their response.

So my question and sentiment was valid. Heck, I don't even mind the sarcasm and attitude (which Mitch managed to include a nice little touch of in his last line) especially since he actually provided real info that actually helped me understand.

Jacek, I know it's not your responsibility to educate me, but that's partly why I'm here on this board and talking to those smarter and more knowledgable than I. When/if the day comes that I'm as enlightened as you are about all this - then I'm sure your 1-2 line answers will fully suffice.
 
AnthonyFlores said:
Lectured like a kid? Moi? Jacek I would never lecture someone of your stature :)

Sorry you did not same the same thing. The difference was that Mitch provided SPECIFICS about the way the lens industry works - which you probably knew - but did not think worth mentioning.

Instead you belittled my post by implying I saw them as a "charity" despite the fact that on Evin's NAB lens roundup many others (all of whom are very serious professionals with extensive lens experience) were wondering the exact same thing I was, and eager for a DP version. I am far from the only one wondering this, which is why Tonaci emailed Angenieux recently and posted their response.

So my question and sentiment was valid. Heck, I don't even mind the sarcasm and attitude (which Mitch managed to include a nice little touch of in his last line) especially since he actually provided real info that actually helped me understand.

Jacek, I know it's not your responsibility to educate me, but that's partly why I'm here on this board and talking to those smarter and more knowledgable than I. When/if the day comes that I'm as enlightened as you are about all this - then I'm sure your 1-2 line answers will fully suffice.
Click to expand...
touché
 
here's my 2nd hand 4wd car.. :auto:
:emote_hippie:
 
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