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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I'll be honest - Dragon disappoints me

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Mark Pugh said:
It sounded very theoretical though... Like computer modeling.
Seemed to me that no actual sensor had been hooked up to epic electronics yet.
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RED has talked about testing actual sensors for over a year now. This is the most recent quote from Jarred:

Jarred Land said:
We have sensors.. but way before getting sensors out of the oven you develop the spec into the sensor design. With simulations and having smart engineers you have a pretty good idea what is going to happen before you even go into fab, and once you start getting test sensors back you validate. That is an incredibly simple explanation of the process... but should give you an idea of the process.
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Justin O'Neill said:
Everyone keeps saying "hopefully" Dragon has more sensitivity in the low-end. Jared stated back in April that dragon was already two stops more sensitive.
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I really hope red pushes the envelop here, and creates a sensor ahead of competition with a true native 3200 ISO sensor, with the ability to shoot with the same DR and noise levels in 320 as well as 12500 iso, that would be really nice and hopefully a realistic target.
 
Max M. said:
I really hope red pushes the envelop here, and creates a sensor ahead of competition with a true native 3200 ISO sensor, with the ability to shoot with the same DR and noise levels in 320 as well as 12500 iso, that would be really nice and hopefully a realistic target.
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I absolutely agree. ARRI will probably have a new sensor around that time as well. I doubt their's will be available as a $6k upgrade though. ;)
 
I wonder if it would be possible to shoot Dragon 6K, and have the camera debayer internally, and output truly pristine, debayered massively hi-res 4K or 5K? Maybe not with the current processor, but ...

Would that appeal to anyone - smaller file size, higher quality?
 
I very much agree with the dreams and hope stated by Les and Justin on this page
 
Justin O'Neill said:
Hahah, I actually re-read my post like 5 times to make sure I didn't sound like I was attacking you!

RED does listen, so the people who do need 6k and beyond feel like they need to defend it in this thread. If the thread was titled, "please release a 5k version of the Dragon upgrade as well" I think we would be less defensive.
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was not referring to you - sorry Justin
 
BTW, this whole thread seems kind of pointless to me, since Red has already stated that the new Dragon sensor will have remarkable upgrades in ISO and DR. What else do you want them to do?
 
For me, the Dragon upgrade is perfect. If the only thing it added was a larger sensor size, I would pass... I'm not using my Epic for stills and many lenses barely cover the MX at 5K as it is... However, the improvements in dynamic range, sensitivity and the smaller photosite size make it very attractive for me. For most aspect ratios, shooting the full 6K will be out of the question for the majority of cine lenses out there, and we'll have to test to see if even Master Primes will cover the larger imaging area. However, the smaller photosites now brings the 5K image within an image circle all lenses will cover, so that's excellent news. Even if there is some corner vignetting at 6K, I plan to use the 6K area as a look-around and buffer for stabilization while framing for 5K. So in that regard, the added resolution is very helpful indeed.

And I have already mentioned in previous threads about the huge advantages for anamorphic with the Dragon sensor at 6K. That ALONE would make the upgrade worth it. I loves me some anamorphic!

The only real problem I have is waiting for it! How about a few early beta testers! (hint, hint)...
 
Don't think the thread is pointless. Many have stated that, but clearly have read the whole post. I'm am going to wait until I am eligible for the upgrade and decide then if it makes sense for me. Sorry us Scarlet owners have ruined the rarified air of Reduser, I am sure it was a happier place before we arrived. For the record, I appreciate thoughtful, constructive debate and would guess Red does too.
 
Brian, I appreciate your comment about the thread. But it's not to look down on Scarlet users - its' to say that there are few places where people with a lot of experience can talk about production, and this used to be one of them. There were always newbies, but they were a minority, not the dominant voice. Not all Scarlet users are young and inexperienced, but as a whole they are much less likely to work in mainstream professional production that many/most (of course, not all) Redusers from a few years back.

I was once a newbie, and there is nothing wrong with being one. Again, no diss here, but sometimes I want to learn from people who know more than me about my world, or at least as much but in different areas.

I spend a lot of time training younger people on and off set, often for no benefit to me other than trying to help. But I can't only be a teacher all the time, sometimes I want to be a student too, or an equal footing colleague.

This was a refuge to hear from and exchange with people more like me in their number of years of experience, or above mine, with a very high level of general education and sophistication. It was special. It was another home away from home.

It doesn't quite feel that way anymore.
 
Tom Lowe said:
BTW, this whole thread seems kind of pointless to me, since Red has already stated that the new Dragon sensor will have remarkable upgrades in ISO and DR. What else do you want them to do?
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If it were up to me I would want them to trade-off even MORE ISO and DR and skip the 6K, but I realize that is unlikely to happen.

If you think attempting to get feedback from other users about their wants is a waste of time then don't participate. You stated that 6K was important to you and your Imax-oriented work, so you got a chance to express your needs, and I and others got the same chance.

As per pointing out that "Rah Rah Red" is rampant here. It is, and it is often stated by others as a reason to discredit anyone with anything good to say about Red. It adds to the conversation in that we all should be encouraged to remain constructively critical and never drink any Kool-Aid regardless of who is serving it. On this topic, on any topic.

That said, your gruff/curt tone is duly noted.

I really think i should stop participating in this forum.

With some exception, many of you seem to not respond well at all to how I think and to be on a totally different wavelength, now more than ever.

I have a great life here in Montreal, time to stop procrastinating it.

For the most part, goodbye all.

I doubt I'll be missed.
 
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Rob Ruffo said:
If it were up to me I would want them to trade-off even MORE ISO and DR and skip the 6K, but I realize that is unlikely to happen.

If you think attempting to get feedback from other users about their wants is a waste of time then don't participate. You stated that 6K was important to you and your Imax-oriented work, so you got a chance to express your needs, and I and others got the same chance.

As per pointing out that "Rah Rah Red" is rampant here. It is, and it is often stated by others as a reason to discredit anyone with anything good to say about Red. It adds to the conversation in that we all should be encouraged to remain constructively critical and never drink any Kool-Aid regardless of who is serving it. On this topic, on any topic.

That said, your gruff/curt tone is duly noted.

I really think i should stop participating in this forum.

With some exception, many of you seem to not respond well at all to how I think and to be on a totally different wavelength, now more than ever.

I have a great life here in Montreal, time to stop procrastinating it.

For the most part, goodbye all.

I doubt I'll be missed.
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I will miss you and share most of your opinions...
 
Rob Ruffo said:
With some exception, many of you seem to not respond well at all to how I think and to be on a totally different wavelength, now more than ever.

I have a great life here in Montreal, time to stop procrastinating it.

For the most part, goodbye all.

I doubt I'll be missed.
Click to expand...
Calling people ungrateful spoiled shits and whiny little bitches does tend to have the effect of putting them on a different wavelength. But even then, any professional voice that's gone from the forum will be sorely missed.
 
:closed2ur0:

Hmm...Hatfields and McCoys now. Moderators, think its about time to wrap this one up?
 
Reading press releases, between less than a year, will be transmitted 4k
http://broadcastengineering.com/news...dards-ultraHD/

The italian RAI broadcasting signed for 2015, the purchase of monitors 8k.
Is being presented, the new codec h265 to transmit in 4K.
I was convinced that RED, presented 8k sensor.
How many of you, I take 4K, to deliver in HD = less noise, plus quality.........
In the future 8k to deliver 4k!!!?
this is just my thoughts
sorry my bad english
 
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