Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

If Color can open R3d files, why do i need Scratch?

santiago said:
for me assimilate and apple are against red's philosophy, i never understood why red choosed them.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should take the time to understand why RED chose them. It's one thing to be critical, entirely another thing to be ignorant.

RED could not invent in a vacuum, they needed the knowledge base of their partnerships. But their users simply want and need more than the supplied tools. We are getting them, slowly but surely. More slowly than surely, though.

Too many people with very few posts spouting off these days about things they haven't taken the time to understand...

...and where is my Adobe plug-in?? Hayhurst said by Thanksgiving, and I'm running out of leftover turkey....
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
Maybe you should take the time to understand why RED chose them. It's one thing to be critical, entirely another thing to be ignorant.
Click to expand...

i'm not being ignorant. we are dealing with raw material here, not film, quicktime, dpx, etc. for me the best players in the raw workflow arena are adobe and cineform, maybe they weren't interested at the time, dunno. we are talking tapeless here, not hdcam sr for dailies. i know hdcam sr is great, but i don't see the point. that's why we have redcine, the problem is it doesn't work very well. should we think that as we bought a really great camera at an incredible price we shouldn't complain? maybe. the question here is, do we need scratch now that we have color support and adobe around the corner? maybe we don't need it anymore, at least not exclusively. scratch is great, but if i can use adobe with an aja or decklink card why spend so much money in scratch, when i can save for epic, or buy lenses. i didn't try color yet, but after trying color and the adobe plugin i will have a definitive answer. maybe i'm wrong and have to buy scratch. but i'm sure i will prefer to upgrade to epic, that's for sure.
 
Compared to what?

Compared to what?

Partnerships and cooperative relationships, whether between people or businesses, are rarely a perfect mesh. Assimilate, Apple, RED, Adobe, etc each have their own agendas. Even if the perception that some of these partner's priorities are anathema to the "RED philosophy" (as you define it) is accurate, I don't think it is constructive to denigrate them on that basis.

All that said, the more salient issue is whether a companies' product and the way they support it suits your business model as a user. For me Scratch is a terrific tool because it allows access to the full data set of the RAW r3d files in a real time environment. Assimilate has had my back on several occasions since I bought their product. Because of this, I have happy clients who get top flight images quickly and reliably.

Bottom line, just because a tool does not fit your particular business model / client base does not mean that it is inherently flawed.

On a related note: I have been a vocal complainer about the lack of resources Apple has put into supporting their professional apps of late. I have been a Mac guy for 20 years and the last 2 years have been pathetic, starting with anemic GPU support. We should have had a serious hardware and software upgrade by NAB 2008 that included robust tools for RedUsers that still has not dropped. r3d support in Color should have been sorted by NAB 2008, not Thanksgiving.

When a well integrated Suite of tools (FCS 3?) running on a modern hardware architecture with proper support for high resolution imagery, 5.1 sound and access to color correction without leaving the host app (FCP) is actually in the wild, then, this is a different discussion.
 
Joe Walker said:
I personally know of nobody within a 400 mile radius of myself currently using (successfully) REDCine as a vital tool in the postproduction pipeline...
Click to expand...

Joe,

I grew up in Huntsville, and lived in B'ham for a few years as well. I actually know several people in H'ville, B'ham, Atlanta, Nashville, and Memphis that are using REDCINE on a fairly regular basis. And even one in Gadsden if you can believe that!

You just happened to pick a region I'm very familiar with. ;)

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
Gadsden eh? Who in Gadsden has a RED camera or is involved in production? I thought only Bill Schweikert and Leo had RED cameras in northern Alabama. Okay........Hmmm. Well as a fellow southeastern born creative kind of guy, why don't you slide me a free version of Scratch or a version of REDCine that performs a bit more "stable". You know how the barter system down here works! ;) Look, I'm not trying to give you guys a hard time, but seriously, REDCine has been in beta for a while now and needs some serious fixing. Leo and I both have shared hours of frustration over this thing, and when we recently tried out Crimson, we were both astounded at how we finally thought this was really helping REDCine come around. I'll give you this, when REDCine has worked for us, I will admit, it is a fantastic one-light grading program. Very well thought out. But I mean every single freaking time I set off a batch render, or sit there dying to hear the audio so I can set some decent in/out points, or render out a TIFF file that mysteriously becomes a 15MB image after I've been rendering out 54MB TIFFS for the previous two hours...I mean, its just frustrating. I would be more than willing to contact you outside this forum and discuss all of this. I am totally in love with the RED One and I'm just trying to make it better, which goes on to include the freeware that comes with it.
 
Joe Walker said:
Gadsden eh? Who in Gadsden has a RED camera or is involved in production? I thought only Bill Schweikert and Leo had RED cameras in northern Alabama.
Click to expand...

Schweikert??? Sh*t man, that dude owes me money. :)

Seriously, tell Bill you've been chatting with me. He and I worked together for several years at Intergraph when they had a serious corporate facility. He's a good guy and a talented DP. Have you seen "Like Moles, Like Rats?"

Drop me a line at lucas (at) assimilateinc (dot) com and we'll see about what kinda barter system you got in mind. Just fyi - any kind of barter system with me will involve several FedEx packages from Dreamland and Milo's.

Lucas
 
Like Moles Like Rats?! Yeah, me and Scott Ross the editor hang out all over the 'Ham regularly, mostly at Rojo. Dreamland and Milo's can be arranged, Leo and I will be in touch with you early next week, guaranteed.
 
This thread felt kinda hostile to me...
the fanboy posts on any side kinda sucks, this are work tools and there is no reason to take any comment personal.
I work with SCRATCH, almost every single day.
I've deliver succesful HDCAM, PHANTOM, REDONE, 16mm, etc etc etc footage with the tool, also integrated with other softwares.
so...
SCRATCH works, if you like it, good. and if you like Color and it works for you its also good. go with what works for you...
at the end isnt all about delivering great pictures besides of the way we do it or the software we use??
 
Juan_M_P said:
This thread felt kinda hostile to me...
Click to expand...

Yeah, and then all of a sudden Joe and Lucas got all nostalgic together and now I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :love:

But agreed, if you don't need Scratch, quit complaining about its price. Stick to Color.

Someone in this thread even suggested with the Adobe plugin they'd grade in After Effects. Not the same. But if it works, it works. I've done a lot of grading in AE and it's acceptable for commercials but a real pain for music videos let alone features and documentaries.

Bar3nd
 
I think the discussion is fun :)

Color is a long way from being able to replace Scratch by any means. I'm still not sure if it even works for a full project as of yet. The bugs are too plentyfold, the 2k sourcing is a real pita, and I'm not even sure if the in and out points can work properly for a longer cut.

BUT it is a nice tech preview of things to come.

The way it handles the RAW files, is also going to create problems for quite a few.

As a workflow it is underperforming. This can be partly due to 25fps issues, but there are still issues...
But the images look good! It is a start.

For CC'ing single clips that are not underexposed, it's way quicker/better than RC/Crimson/Color

It will be very interesting to see what Adobe comes up with (in cooperation with Assimilate AND RED) and either Apple will have worked out a nice Color workflow by FCS 3 or they won't. Easy as that.

The realtime playback in Color was my biggest positive surprise. It gives a lot of hope to other SDK based workflows.

Scratch is very much alive and kicking, and as computing power meets build 16/17/18/xxx, Scratch will be as good as it used to be for realtime layback to tape/playout of DPXs etc... :)

We're in the middle of a technological paradigma-shift which won't settle for at least the next couple of years. It sure is frustrating and aggravating @ times, and I think it is fair to point that out. But the images we get are nevertheless in a totally different league than anything that was accessible with comparable equipment a year ago. Even 8 months ago. Let's not forget that.

Things are not "there" yet, by far. But they keep getting better!
And there are always the option to do it "the old way": DPX/TIFF sequences to anything. It works rather well, and have been long before RED.

But the future is definitely bright and RAW. It just isn't there yet.

And let's continue the asking for more... :)
 
Juan_M_P said:
Lol, make love, not war!
Click to expand...

Hey man... you've never had Dreamland ribs from Birmingham or a Milo's burger with extra sauce and extra salt.. That food would cure all the world's ills and bring peace to humanity. They are that good.

And for the vegetarians, just drink a few litres of Milo's Sweet Tea and curl up in a ball while the sugar coma hits you.

Good food with good friends cures all.

Lucas
 
Red users,
Hope is great.
This is good thread to look at after being away. Anything less than frame accurate in most of the professional world is unacceptable and then unexplainable to production. Close but no cigar is not close enough. So keep that in mind before you sell a workflow. Scratch has a track record with this in the pro ranks.
If its a small in house gig. Test it. Use it love it try it.
Then testify.
For RED SDK experiments there are no guarantees. Productions want guarantees.
Studios demand guarantees.
Just a Humble opinion..
best,
Jeff O.
LA,CA
 
luki said:
Hey man... you've never had Dreamland ribs from Birmingham or a Milo's burger with extra sauce and extra salt.. That food would cure all the world's ills and bring peace to humanity. They are that good.
Click to expand...
Ah, hamburgers! the cornerstone of any nutritious breakfast

:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top