Ideal .r3d CS6 workflow

[Jon Chema]

So I decided to finally make the switch from FCP 7....

I've got a Mid-2011 27" imac with quad core i7, 32gb of RAM, and a SSD system drive. Unfortunately, only a ATI 6770M GPU. I'm attempting to edit a music video from the native .r3d RAW files and ultimately deliver in 1080p.

I'm wondering how everyone approaches workflow when editing this way. I used "5k FF 23.98" as my sequence preset. Wasn't sure if I needed to choose 1080p. I'm trying to avoid transcoding the .r3d files via RCX, as I don't have a Rocket card.

My experience thus far has been frustrating. I'm getting choppy timeline playback even at 1/8 resolution.

Am I missing something here?

 

[MichaelP]

Unless you have a requirement for a 5K delivery, I would suggest working with a 1080p sequence preset. Also, what type of drive and connection are the R3D files being played back from?

Michael

 

[Jon Chema]

Unless you have a requirement for a 5K delivery, I would suggest working with a 1080p sequence preset. Also, what type of drive and connection are the R3D files being played back from?

Michael

Thanks. Wasn't sure if the 1080p option would automatically scale the files down from 5k or just crop in. Using a 7200rpm drive connected via thunderbolt to esata adapter

 

[Jon Chema]

**UPDATE: When selecting a 1080 sequence preset, premiere is cropping in all my 5k files to 1080p instead of scaling down. Am I missing something here?

 

[Andrew Allsbury]

I have always found the ppro experience to be much faster when you work in the native format and down rez on export (edit 5k in a 5k timeline). You would need to scale manually or utilize the "scale to framesize" option to get rid of the crop in 1080p, but be sure to check "maximize render quality" on export.

 

[Mike Harrington]

I agree...5k in a 5k timeline....then export 1080p

Had to convert 20 timelines once as we were getting almost 3 times the render speed in a 5k timeline as in a 1080p timeline....

That being said, i do do a lot in a 1080p timeline....so do test renders...works either way

 

[Miles Heckendorn]

**UPDATE: When selecting a 1080 sequence preset, premiere is cropping in all my 5k files to 1080p instead of scaling down. Am I missing something here?

What you can do is right click on the clip and choose "scale to frame size" or set that under the preferences. This is the fast way and will work when you don't need to do any type of resizing or cropping.

Here is an explanation on the differences between Ppro and FCP7:

http://strypesinpost.com/2012/12/when-to-scale-to-frame-size-in-premiere-pro-cs6/

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jon was right in the first place, sequence should match his footage. Or at least match the most common footage used. If he has other shots in 1080p, 2K, 3K, etc.. to mix in, scale those. If you're going through telling Premiere to scale every clip to fit your frame size, then you're doing it wrong.

If he needs 1080p delivery, he can use that as his output size on export.

The first and most likely bottleneck is that single 7200rpm HDD he's working from. A decently fast RAID is pretty much required for EPIC footage. 5KFF at 7:1 compression requires a sustained read rate of 91MB/s plus any additional overhead needed by the drive and data interface. That right there is going to stress his hard drive he's working from.

 

[Jon Chema]

Jon was right in the first place, sequence should match his footage. Or at least match the most common footage used. If he has other shots in 1080p, 2K, 3K, etc.. to mix in, scale those. If you're going through telling Premiere to scale every clip to fit your frame size, then you're doing it wrong.

If he needs 1080p delivery, he can use that as his output size on export.

The first and most likely bottleneck is that single 7200rpm HDD he's working from. A decently fast RAID is pretty much required for EPIC footage. 5KFF at 7:1 compression requires a sustained read rate of 91MB/s plus any additional overhead needed by the drive and data interface. That right there is going to stress his hard drive he's working from.

Thanks for the insight. I transferred over my project onto my system drive. Direct 7200rpm HDD built into my iMac. Still having playback issues even at 1/4 resolution. I'm beginning to feel that the lack of an Nvidia GPU is causing these issues. I've got the ATI chip and its only got 512mb of VRAM. I've got a 15" retina with the nvidia GPU but am wanting the screen real estate of the 27" imac. However, maybe the MBP will perform better.

Project was shot entirely at 8:1 Redcode btw

Thoughts?

 

[Jon Chema]

And 32gb of system RAM

 

[Matt Doane]

I have a very similar setup, but editing from a Thunderbolt RAID that reads and writes above 500MB/s. Playback at half res usually isn't a problem.

 

[Will Keir]

He said the drive is internal SSD. Which will be sure to fill up fast. Most 3G SSDs run over 200 MB/S Read&Write.

The first and most likely bottleneck is that single 7200rpm HDD he's working from.

Jeff is absolutely right. More on Hard drive tests in a Premiere Pro environment from a dicussed we've been having here.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...B-3-SSD-eSATA-SSD-Dock-2x-SSD-RAID-0-NAS-etc)

That internal SSD will fill up fast. Listen to Jeff on this one, you need at least eSATA or USB 3 Speeds for editing an Epic footage sequence. Once you go over 300 MB/S with the drives, you won't notice any improvement in playback resolution. The max with a RR card and a fifteen thousand dollar computer, with current hardware is 1/2 res.

A decently fast RAID is pretty much required for EPIC footage. 5KFF at 7:1 compression requires a sustained read rate of 91MB/s plus any additional overhead needed by the drive and data interface. That right there is going to stress his hard drive he's working from.

Jeff. Any idea what the MB/S Read and Write on 5KFF 3:1, 5KFF 3:1 at 100+ FPS make any difference? I usually do 5kws 121 FPS.

 

[Will Keir]

Jon, try enabling and disabling GPU playback. Try Software playback. Go to > Project > Project Settings > Open the General Tab. Inside at the top "Video Rendering and Playback," select the drop down window to the right of "Renderer:"

Try Software. Try GPU.

Thanks for the insight. I transferred over my project onto my system drive. Direct 7200rpm HDD built into my iMac. Still having playback issues even at 1/4 resolution. I'm beginning to feel that the lack of an Nvidia GPU is causing these issues. I've got the ATI chip and its only got 512mb of VRAM. I've got a 15" retina with the nvidia GPU but am wanting the screen real estate of the 27" imac. However, maybe the MBP will perform better.

Project was shot entirely at 8:1 Redcode btw

Thoughts?

 

[Will Keir]

Jeff must be a mind reader. Wish I saw this earlier.

You are trying to edit on a 7200 RPM Drive? Your first post said you had a SSD?

A 7200 RPM Drive will be your bottleneck for sure. Try putting a few R3Ds on the SSD and edit a short test project together. That should give you smooth playback at 1/4.

Remember, with Adobe, there are a few things to download to get a R3D workflow up and running. RC3/RG3 comes to mind.
You also might look into Graphic Card Drivers.

I transferred over my project onto my system drive. Direct 7200rpm HDD built into my iMac.

 

[Jon Chema]

He said the drive is internal SSD. Which will be sure to fill up fast. Most 3G SSDs run over 200 MB/S Read&Write.



Jeff is absolutely right. More on Hard drive tests in a Premiere Pro environment from a dicussed we've been having here.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...B-3-SSD-eSATA-SSD-Dock-2x-SSD-RAID-0-NAS-etc)

That internal SSD will fill up fast. Listen to Jeff on this one, you need at least eSATA or USB 3 Speeds for editing an Epic footage sequence. Once you go over 300 MB/S with the drives, you won't notice any improvement in playback resolution. The max with a RR card and a fifteen thousand dollar computer, with current hardware is 1/2 res.


Jeff. Any idea what the MB/S Read and Write on 5KFF 3:1, 5KFF 3:1 at 100+ FPS make any difference? I usually do 5kws 121 FPS.

Thanks. No my system drive is a 120gb 6G SSD (OS and Apps running off this). My other internal drive is a 1TB 7200 RPM HDD. I transferred my footage to it. Figured it would be plenty fast as its hard wired into the computer itself via SATA, etc.

 

[Jon Chema]

I have a very similar setup, but editing from a Thunderbolt RAID that reads and writes above 500MB/s. Playback at half res usually isn't a problem.

Question: has anyone had any success with the Lacie Little Big disk SSD. They're claiming read/write speeds of 600+ MB/s via thunderbolt.

 

[Will Keir]

Stay away from LaCie. There company tech support is why I went G Tech, then up to CalDigit. I've also had one of my LaCie original drives go bad... 2 good reasons to stay away. BTW, G Tech support is nonexistent by phone. It's an automated message. So for now CalDigit is my best option.

CalDigit VR2's are good for connectivity and good bang for your buck for a mobile RAID.

Question: has anyone had any success with the Lacie Little Big disk SSD. They're claiming read/write speeds of 600+ MB/s via thunderbolt.

 

[Will Keir]

Unless transfer speed is that critical. Over 300 MB/S is the same editing in Premiere as 1300 MB/S. No smoothing resolution editing gain. 1/2 for the most powerful systems.

Again, Try putting a few files on your internal SSD. Report back for others in similar positions.

Question: has anyone had any success with the Lacie Little Big disk SSD. They're claiming read/write speeds of 600+ MB/s via thunderbolt.

 

[francisco santos]

in preferences theres an option to always scale to fit (life saver)

 

[Nick Timmons]

Jeff, one reason to run with a 1080p timeline is third-party SDI output cards.
My Decklink 4K Extreme doesn't scale, so I don't get SDI output unless I use a supported sequence setting.