I'd think thrice before Posting on Vimeo

[bsewell]

Cool topic - I'd never thought about the legal ramifications of using low-cost or free services to send your materials around. As the president of Wiredrive, I believe self-promotion tools and client posting tools have different feature sets and security requirements to take into consideration.

Self Promotion - Open Access vs. Controlled Delivery
My belief (over the last 10 years of working with commercial production cos) is that the process of landing good paying clients is completely relationship-driven. You (i.e. video professionals) need the ability to deliver a custom-created relevant presentation to a client online, immediately. Clients strongly prefer reviewing work online to build their "short list" of candidates to call back, because it is easier to review, forward and organize 100 reels online with a team than to deal with 100 physical tapes. Online reels allow you to see who viewed your work and how many times they viewed it, which provides tremendously valuable sales insight.

You also need the ability to remove work when you need to. I've heard of top companies who "lost" jobs because the client had "one of their reels" already, which was an old DVD and was not a good representation of their current work. So they didn't get the call. With a system like Wiredrive, you can control your work long after you’ve sent it to the client, adding, changing and deleting work as you see fit.


Production
Once you land the job and move into production,you now are dealing with projects, people, media and approvals and comments. Certain tools like MobileMe work well on individual projects, but do not scale well to multiple users and projects within a branded organization. There is also a balance between security and customer convenience. We've seen some clients simply not bother to log into a password protected site because it was too much of a hassle.

RED uses Wiredrive to collect client submissions of work. In fact, Ted mentioned that a significant amount of the footage they showed at the last RED announcement was originally reviewed through Wiredrive and that it simplified their content collection.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16831

Regards,

Bill Sewell
President

Wiredrive

 

[Randy Lee]

While I'm not a lawyer, so-called "click-wrap" licenses like what Youtube and Vimeo are using are very subjective. The legal team puts them up just in case, but it seems that courts in the US have been siding against companies using this kind of license. If this discussion keeps on going, I'll do a few Google searches this weekend and find examples, but from what I've read, along with what I've heard from a copyright lawyer here in Wisconsin, they're all bark and no substance. Also, as previously mentioned, the legal problems that they would have if they were to try to exercise some of the rights that they claim to have would be enormous.

It bothers me that companies make licenses like this, and I'm glad that several individuals here have posted alternative hosting sites. Hopefully one day a major hosting site such as Vimeo will get rid of these ludicrous hoops that we have to jump through and worry about, but until then, better safe than sorry.

 

[Martin Weiss]

Re-visiting Vimeo's terms of service, they have now added a section where they translate all the legal terms into english. For example, giving Vimeo the right to make derivative work from my film, means that they can transcode it to allow for streaming. They make it very clear that they will not use the video for other purposes without my permission.

What I like about Vimeo (besides the better technical quality compared to that other video site), is that you get much better comments.

 

[Andrew Walker]

Glad to hear that this got cleared up. I wasn't too concerned about it because I watermark most of the stuff I put up on there. But still nice to hear. I guess they got tired of all the emails everyone sent them.

 

[Ace]

Wheather or not they are never going to do something stupid with your footage is not the issue. This clause is a dealbreaker; If youve signed a contract with a distributor or producer which grants exclusivity and youve agreed to this clause, youve repudiated your contract technically.. Worse yet, if you ever get into legal issues with a producer/client/distributor etc, they can use your agreement with Vimeo as an example..

/Not a Lawyer

 

[Ace]

Re-visiting Vimeo's terms of service, they have now added a section where they translate all the legal terms into english. For example, giving Vimeo the right to make derivative work from my film, means that they can transcode it to allow for streaming. They make it very clear that they will not use the video for other purposes without my permission.

What I like about Vimeo (besides the better technical quality compared to that other video site), is that you get much better comments.

Well thats cool of them!

I agree regarding comments. Youtube comments forumula is pretty much:

"Repeat a line from video" + LOL + ROFL

 

[jimhare]

Repeat a line! That's great! LOL!

Sorry, couldn't resist... :emote_hanged:

Well thats cool of them!

I agree regarding comments. Youtube comments forumula is pretty much:

"Repeat a line from video" + LOL + ROFL

 

[Imran Farouk]

u forgot 'ROFL!'

 

[Stephen Gentle]

On the subject of hosting -

I have unlimited bandwidth and storage space, as well as the ability to host unlimited domains (with one provided free of charge) at Dreamhost. Pretty good for about $2 a month if I remember correctly.

It's $9 a month if you buy at the moment, but every month or two they have a special where they pretty much just give it away!

 

[Joseph Hutson]

Another bonus that Vimeo users get (besides much better quality and a more professional looking interface) is that ScarletUsers may embed their vimeo files within the SU threads, while YouTubers can't. :laugh:

 

[Joseph Hutson]

On the subject of hosting -

I have unlimited bandwidth and storage space, as well as the ability to host unlimited domains (with one provided free of charge) at Dreamhost. Pretty good for about $2 a month if I remember correctly.

It's $9 a month if you buy at the moment, but every month or two they have a special where they pretty much just give it away!

I wish I would have seen this a week earlier, since I just did my 2nd year renewal. I should have looked further for an alternative (I don't really appreciate their Ad campaign.

Well, I will just wait til next year to switch over. :thumbup1:

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I've noticed that of late quite a few people are posting their video via Vimeo. I am very impressed by the video quality, that is no doubt superior to youTube. So today I had a look at their terms & conditions and stumbled upon this sentence:



Though I am thankfully not a lawyer, from what I understand is that you are essentially losing control of the film you are posting on Vimeo. irrevocable and forever. And give them the right to make new films out of your stuff.

I have also noticed that a few DPs use Vimeo to host their showreels. Essentially you have given Vimeo the right to make new films out of your showreel - and I doubt that your clients gave you authority for that.

Fellow filmmakers: your creative work is your captial. Be careful what you do with it.

I for one will not be publishing anything on Vimeo under these terms.

Correct Martin, I didn't want to post this as I did not have attorney's confirmations, but I did this morning and funny thing is about reading you posted this, my Vimeo account and all uploaded Videos has been permanently removed!!

I suggest to any one that has any creative Files, of which might not be willing to let it be Royalty free, to remove it immediately from Vimeo as well, you can keep the account however just to play around and post insignificant files, meaning just fun stuff.

This goes the same way with any net such as Youtube or any one, simply put, once you upload a file on a public service you have no full right of your material, unless it was already previously copyrighted, and sold.

Only safe way is to upload in your own web site, and post links.

 

[Imran Farouk]

I thought the second post from Martin about the agreement said it was only for transcoding and not stripping the video of its rights?

Wow and all this while I thought all these services were innocent!

 

[Ace]

I thought the second post from Martin about the agreement said it was only for transcoding and not stripping the video of its rights?

Wow and all this while I thought all these services were innocent!

Well whatever is worded in the agreement is what counts legally. Not what they say its for. Although there are complexities of implied usage etc in that case.

On the other hand, if I was them, I would need all usage rights for material on my website..

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Well whatever is worded in the agreement is what counts legally. Not what they say its for. Although there are complexities of implied usage etc in that case.

On the other hand, if I was them, I would need all usage rights for material on my website..

You are correct Ace, and most if not all, I most certain they are, do fill the same way you do, and I would to, so for this you shouldn't post any material of which you have not already copyright notice and Firm rights to it, cause if you don't it will be used by the Hosting server as they please.