I was wrrr...wrrrrong.

[dvpixl]

in the beginning I thought 2K was theatrical.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

When I was at Red HQ, Jim showed us raw footage from PJ's Crossing the Line at 2k resolution. I stood so close to the projection that my eyes could not hold the screen in focus, and I still could not see pixels.

After that experience, I am completely fine with 2k

 

[David Mullen ASC]

In terms of depth of field, though, I see one advantage here to 2K windowed -- overcranking from 24 fps to 72 fps is nearly a 2-stop exposure loss, and normally you'd open-up the iris to compensate... but switching to 2K windowed for the 72 fps shot and therefore using a shorter focal length almost compensates and keeps your depth of field similar to the 4K 24 fps shot.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

After that experience, I am completely fine with 2k

And the most indie productions could afford 2K pipeline. 4K post is still for big guys, Hollywood budget etc...

 

[jbeale]

When I was at Red HQ, Jim showed us raw footage from PJ's Crossing the Line at 2k resolution. I stood so close to the projection that my eyes could not hold the screen in focus, and I still could not see pixels.

Just to be pedantic, might that have been 2k scaled down from a 4k original, as opposed to a 2k crop? In theory, the scaled version should be cleaner than a crop... I don't know how much real difference is visible though. With the new firmware updates I guess we'll all be finding out out soon enough!

 

[Brandon Fraley]

PJ shot 4k, so it was scaled down. Shawn's point still stand though. I cant wait

 

[Álex Montoya]

Is the CMOS readout faster in this mode?

Things like gun muzzles could benefit from it.

 

[Rob Lohman]

Is the CMOS readout faster in this mode?

Things like gun muzzles could benefit from it.

Yes. The full sensor is max 60 fps, in 2K mode this goes up to 120 fps. The plan is to do 100 fps to compact flash...

 

[REDHKSC]

OK. I have to eat crow. I admit it. I won't just shoot 4K.

Shooting 2K windowed is a completely valid option.

1. Even windowed from 4K, the 2K sensor portion is larger than 2/3", better DOF characteristics than an F23, HDCAM or Viper.

2. Having 72fps (for now) at this frame size is better than HDCAM-SR 4:4:4, which now shoots 60fps at 1080P.

3. You can use all your 35mm PL mount lenses, except at the wide end due to the focal length factor. You'll need a wide S16 lens or two to cover all the bases.

4. The record time to 8GB CF is over 20 minutes.

5. Pushing the data through the pipeline is much easier.

And best of all, the image looks great.

I still will shoot most of my stuff 4K, but I won't hesitate to shoot 2K windowed if necessary.

Jim

Why not 2K ? , and there are many 2K D-Cinemas outthere. Check this out at
http://www.christiedigital.com/NR/r...CC39569C9/0/christieDigitalCinemaTheatres.pdf

If Sony want to know how to sell their 4K projectors at FULL price, and they should build a 4K Digital Cinema Camera as a Digital Cinemea package in 4K to anything. Otherwise, may I suggest them just to sell their 4K Projector at the HD price. Film based scanning source to project from their 4K is different issue.

Where is our RED Digital Cinema ? Will RED build more RED Digital Cinemas for our RED one owners / content creators in 4K ?

Stewart

Stewart

 

[Jamon Lewis]

Guess this is a dumb question or rather has been explain and discussed on a thread (i'll take the link to the thread...) but i'll ask it anyway... What are the advantages of 2K windowed over strait 2k? tanks

 

[Stephen Williams]

Higher frame rates possible.

Stephen

 

[mezmo]

So, are you saying that 18mm on the short zoom will not be in focus with 2K mode?

Hi jlaurili,
18mm on the short zoom would have about a 36mm field of view.
you would need a 7-64mm cannonS16 Cine zoom to get a similar
field of view on 2K windowed or a Zeiss 11-110 (slighty longer) but
better build quality.
Big bucks for this glass around 15-20$K U.S.
Wide angle Primes are also expensive as things get critical around the
6-8mm range, just like HD wide angle primes.
A better and cheaper plan would be to get Red running faster @ 4K,
over to you Jim. Or 2K scaled with 35mm DOF.
Sorry to be negative here guys but I think this is really important for
Red to make it, Big Time.
Jim's asking a lot of people to spend big bucks on S16 or B4 glass
while they wait for 2K scaled. Hmmmmm.
Hope this helps. Mezmo

 

[TimPipher]

Hi jlaurili,
18mm on the short zoom would have about a 36mm field of view.
you would need a 7-64mm cannonS16 Cine zoom to get a similar
field of view on 2K windowed or a Zeiss 11-110 (slighty longer) but
better build quality.
Big bucks for this glass around 15-20$K U.S.
Wide angle Primes are also expensive as things get critical around the
6-8mm range, just like HD wide angle primes.
A better and cheaper plan would be to get Red running faster @ 4K,
over to you Jim. Or 2K scaled with 35mm DOF.
Sorry to be negative here guys but I think this is really important for
Red to make it, Big Time.
Jim's asking a lot of people to spend big bucks on S16 or B4 glass
while they wait for 2K scaled. Hmmmmm.
Hope this helps. Mezmo

Is 2K scaled with 35mm DOF in the works? If so, what's the ETA? Also, I assume that would give the same recording time on the CF cards as 2K windowed, correct?

 

[JD Holloway]

In terms of depth of field, though, I see one advantage here to 2K windowed -- overcranking from 24 fps to 72 fps is nearly a 2-stop exposure loss, and normally you'd open-up the iris to compensate... but switching to 2K windowed for the 72 fps shot and therefore using a shorter focal length almost compensates and keeps your depth of field similar to the 4K 24 fps shot.

Good point DM,

This could help with shot continuity issues and inter-cutting etc.

J

 

[mezmo]

Hi Tim,
Yes 2K scaled with 35mm DOF @ around 75fps is in the works.
ETA? At the moment 4k with 35mm DOF @ 30fps to flash is the only option
or windowed with S16 DOF at hopefully 75 fps (for those in 50 cycle
countries) is the high speed option. The camera has been tested at
72fps windowed to flash, (3x24fps). Recording time at 2K scaled ?
I think it can get to 60fps thru the data port and that would mean 120fps
at 2K scaled thru the data port, need to check this.
The way it is now the average feature film shoot would need two lens sets.
S16 zoom and primes, 35mm format Zoom and primes. A producers nightmare. Or you would have to hire in a dedicated digital high speed camera.
Or shoot high speed on 35mm film.
Sort of gets expensive for indie filmakers like me. Not a problem for the
big guys.
I was hoping that Red would crack it here, come out with a digital 35mm
DOF camera with a decent high speed frame rate to flash. It may be some time coming and it makes it hard to sell this system NOW to directors who love 35mm
DOF and shoot a lot of things off speed.
I'll go now, just a little depressed. Mezmo

 

[Joe Aurili]

Too rich for me to get wide angles in 2K. I was wanting to get even wider in 4K, but once again to rich for me

Hi jlaurili,
18mm on the short zoom would have about a 36mm field of view.
you would need a 7-64mm cannonS16 Cine zoom to get a similar
field of view on 2K windowed or a Zeiss 11-110 (slighty longer) but
better build quality.
Big bucks for this glass around 15-20$K U.S.
Wide angle Primes are also expensive as things get critical around the
6-8mm range, just like HD wide angle primes.
A better and cheaper plan would be to get Red running faster @ 4K,
over to you Jim. Or 2K scaled with 35mm DOF.
Sorry to be negative here guys but I think this is really important for
Red to make it, Big Time.
Jim's asking a lot of people to spend big bucks on S16 or B4 glass
while they wait for 2K scaled. Hmmmmm.
Hope this helps. Mezmo

 

[Rocco Schult]

First of all, great you guys managed to do the 72 fps, thats really great news.

Jim's asking a lot of people to spend big bucks on S16 or B4 glass while they wait for 2K scaled. Hmmmmm.

Yes 2K scaled with 35mm DOF @ around 75fps is in the works....It may be some time coming and it makes it hard to sell this system NOW to directors who love 35mm

Though I must asmit, that Mezmo is kinda right. As we know the 2k scaled is in the works -somehow and sometime- we want more. Its not greed. Its just, if we know it can be done, its truly the better choice.

Nonetheless, thanks for the feature!

 

[Häakon]

Hi Tim,
Yes 2K scaled with 35mm DOF @ around 75fps is in the works.

Hi,

2K scaled will never shoot faster than 60fps because it is scaled from the full 4K sensor which has a max framerate of 60p. This is a hardware limitation and cannot be upgraded through firmware.

Best,

Häakon

 

[Joe Aurili]

Or, I guess, I can always get free and low distortion wide angle in 2K or 4K, by moving back the camera.

 

[TimPipher]

Hi Tim,
Yes 2K scaled with 35mm DOF @ around 75fps is in the works.
ETA? At the moment 4k with 35mm DOF @ 30fps to flash is the only option
or windowed with S16 DOF at hopefully 75 fps (for those in 50 cycle
countries) is the high speed option. The camera has been tested at
72fps windowed to flash, (3x24fps). Recording time at 2K scaled ?
I think it can get to 60fps thru the data port and that would mean 120fps
at 2K scaled thru the data port, need to check this.
The way it is now the average feature film shoot would need two lens sets.
S16 zoom and primes, 35mm format Zoom and primes. A producers nightmare. Or you would have to hire in a dedicated digital high speed camera.
Or shoot high speed on 35mm film.
Sort of gets expensive for indie filmakers like me. Not a problem for the
big guys.
I was hoping that Red would crack it here, come out with a digital 35mm
DOF camera with a decent high speed frame rate to flash. It may be some time coming and it makes it hard to sell this system NOW to directors who love 35mm
DOF and shoot a lot of things off speed.
I'll go now, just a little depressed. Mezmo

Thanks Mezmo. I'm glad you pointed this issue out. It is a bit sobering.