Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I want my Rec 709!

L

Leo Ticheli

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2007
Messages
818
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Or do I?

I loved Rec 709; the picture on my monitor looked just like what I saw with my eyes, correct in color and contrast, pleasing to me and clients.

I'm not getting along with the new look at all, I really hate the RAW view and I find Red Color not much better. I'm strongly considering tweaking the camera settings to make the image on the monitor more pleasing and useful.

I must say that I don't like this approach; I've always believed that shooting with the settings nominal gives the greatest opportunity for adjustments in post, but I may well have to change my tune.

I know there's a big push to solve the infamous bug in the future cameras, but I do wish I could have Rec 709 back.

I will greatly appreciate any help offered on the settings to emulate the Rec 709 look.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
To each his own I guess, always hated Rec709 colors.
I'd bring it up sometimes when a client kept mumbling about the image looking washed out. Can't say I miss it.
 
hans de vries said:
your eyes are in rec 709?
Click to expand...

My eyes are in Rec 709; I've been looking at it for a long, long, long time.

You know, after a while, a long while, one no longer needs a light meter; same sort of thing.

I'm OK that some may not like Rec 709. Fine. But I do. I want it back. It's not either or. Or is it? Is there some technical reason one can't have both?

And, no, I don't think it's cool to have to the client looking at something pretty far removed from the way the final image is going to look. Might as well go back to wretched video assist.

So, any suggestions on camera setup; I'm grateful for help in that regard.

I'd be a lot more grateful if Red would simply put back in the next build.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
my eyes are around T3.9 these days...what i wouldn't give to get back a set of T1.3's or better. damn i hate getting old.:emote_22_yikes:
 
Leo Ticheli said:
Or do I?

I loved Rec 709; the picture on my monitor looked just like what I saw with my eyes, correct in color and contrast, pleasing to me and clients.

I'm not getting along with the new look at all, I really hate the RAW view and I find Red Color not much better. I'm strongly considering tweaking the camera settings to make the image on the monitor more pleasing and useful.

I must say that I don't like this approach; I've always believed that shooting with the settings nominal gives the greatest opportunity for adjustments in post, but I may well have to change my tune.

I know there's a big push to solve the infamous bug in the future cameras, but I do wish I could have Rec 709 back.

I will greatly appreciate any help offered on the settings to emulate the Rec 709 look.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
Click to expand...
Leo, i'm assuming you are MXed, and wondering if you used Build 30 before doing an MX upgrade. If so, was the look any different for whatever colorspace you were using?

This is just curiousness on my part since I haven't done the MX upgrade.
 
I'd like to have Rec 709 output as an option as well.

I have a lot of client complaints because the image "doesn't look right" on the monitor. Most of these clients have never worked on film or high end digital before... so they think they are looking at something close to the final product.

It would certainly save me a lot of headaches and explanations.
 
I'm not on MX.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Ya it would nice to have that Broadcast Standard back.
 
RAW view is bland and boring and I LOVE IT! It shows me what I need to know, along with the exposure tools. REC-709 only makes sense if I'm shooting for the confines of antiquated SD/HD video color space and don't want to use the full potential of the RAW image. REC-709 is the suck in post when you want to exploit the benefits of RAW and not be limited by the 709 color gamut.

That said, I'm really hoping that the Epic has independent monitoring paths so I can turn on a custom look for a directors' monitor or be able to toggle other looks and color spaces on and off. I doubt I would personally ever put REC-709 on any upcoming RED camera, but I also get tired of explaining to director and producer types that everything is alright and the image looks flat and nasty because I want it to. So far it hasn't been a problem and it seems people are getting more trusting of this. However, it was a tough sell in the beginning and sometimes still is...
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
RAW view is bland and boring and I LOVE IT! It shows me what I need to know, along with the exposure tools. REC-709 only makes sense if I'm shooting for the confines of antiquated SD/HD video color space and don't want to use the full potential of the RAW image.
Click to expand...

What Jeff said....

I'm not a shooter but in talking with DP's and then working for years now with .R3D in post I can tell you that it's best to monitor (from an exposure and lighting standpoint) in RAW space since it most accurately shows you the real latitude curve of your image. If you set it to this and keep the histogram from clipping any info, you should be able to work magic in your grading.

This might not look best for your clients on set, but it's a technically better approach, IMHO. I think clients are able to be educated about this. I know they are always amazed when they see the color grade vs. the proxies (based on meta) and when I toggle between the grade and the LOG space transcodes they are blown away. It comes down to being able to see what data you are really recording vs. a pretty picture on set. If you can dial in your own look that doesn't betray your actual exposure/histogram than that would be another way to go. The #1 footage issue I see is loss of data in the highlights, anything once can do to prevent this should be done, and if that means monitoring in RAW... then do so.
 
Leo,
Out of curiosity...why do you fear tweeking the camera settings? Its all metadata anyway. I tweek colors and contrast on the camera for my clients viewing monitors all the time. I can refer back to RAW viewing to check exposure quick enough. I like to give my director a bit of the feel they want during the shoot. Not saying we are locked into the grade. The best part is that if the director changes their mind and hates the look...they can change it all again in post. I would advocate for building a custom setting in camera that pleases your eye...just keep checking the RAW view too.

Taylor
 
Does anyone know why Rec 709 was taken out? I don't understand why it would be removed, personally I think the more LUT's you have to view your images the better.
 
Taylor Morrison said:
why do you fear tweeking the camera settings? Its all metadata anyway.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Taylor; my fear just comes from the bad old days before RAW when whatever you did, for instance VariCam, was baked into the footage.

I'm now resolved to go into the studio and try to tweak the setting to something acceptable.

I know we all have different ways of working and the demands for theatrical presentation are surely different from my HD television work, but I still think the requirement of having to explain to clients, art directors, etc. that what they are looking at is far removed from what they will be getting. What's the point of that?

If there is no technical reason demanding that Rec 709 be removed, it should be in the next build.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Leo,

I'm with you on the bad old days... Working on sony d600's with paintboxes and having clients love a look on set, to only have trouble in post later with too much look baked in, was always a fear. I guess thats really why I like the Raw workflow. I get to lay down a little of my vision on set even if I am not going to be involved in post. And if the client hates it...they can have at it with out my suggestions... I am fortunate that most do like what I suggest with my set up! I am sure yours will like your tweeks as well!

See ya

Taylor
 
I've tweaked the settings, a lot of them and farther than I guessed I'd have to go, and now my image on the monitor looks just right and the footage comes right up in post just as it looked on the set.

I'm OK with this, but I would still prefer to be able to just bring up Rec 709.

Thank you, Taylor for dragging me kicking and screaming into the 21st Century.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
I think the reason REC-709 was removed is RED was trying to keep with the most appropriate modes for monitoring and exposing RAW. The theory is that you can load additional looks to the camera, even one for REC-709 and flip between them. Development on RED One firmware has been put on the back burner it seems... Highly understandable, I think they have all hands working on Epic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top