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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I took apart a Redmag SSD...

I know someone else who also opened one up, I won't say who ( they are not a Red user). They even tried to install a bigger memory card (512). I will say that they were VERY qualified with this sort of thing and had access to extensive knowledge in SSD technology. In the end the Red Mag didn't work and they replaced the original memory and got the card working again. There is some very proprietary tech in the Red Mag and you can't just pop them open, replace stuff and have them keep on working. At least this was his analysis.
 
shenanigans
plural of she·nan·i·gans (Noun)
Noun:
Secret or dishonest activity or maneuvering.
Silly or high-spirited behavior; mischief.
 
Mark Andersen said:
I know someone else who also opened one up, I won't say who ( they are not a Red user). They even tried to install a bigger memory card (512). I will say that they were VERY qualified with this sort of thing and had access to extensive knowledge in SSD technology. In the end the Red Mag didn't work and they replaced the original memory and got the card working again. There is some very proprietary tech in the Red Mag and you can't just pop them open, replace stuff and have them keep on working. At least this was his analysis.
Click to expand...

It's called 'firmware'. Standard off-the-shelf SSD module, as I understand, with proprietary RDC custom firmware on it to support zero dropout write performance. No surprise there in the least.

Mike (old hacker, former senior engineer with Dell UK in a previous life; built and fixed more RAIDs than you've had hot dinners :-)
 
BRANDON JAMESON said:
shenanigans
plural of she·nan·i·gans (Noun)
Noun:
Secret or dishonest activity or maneuvering.
Silly or high-spirited behavior; mischief.
Click to expand...

A very good word, one of my favourites. I offer:

gallivant
Noun:
to visit or go to a lot of different places, enjoying yourself and not worrying about other things you should be doing

Mike
 
Mike, this is pure speculation, but are you suggesting Red runs custom firmware on the SSD to avoid dropouts? I'm not sure I understand why that would be necessary, as practically any SSD on the market can sustain several times the throughput the Epic currently outputs at. What is your rationale?
 
Nick Timmons said:
Mike, this is pure speculation, but are you suggesting Red runs custom firmware on the SSD to avoid dropouts? I'm not sure I understand why that would be necessary, as practically any SSD on the market can sustain several times the throughput the Epic currently outputs at. What is your rationale?
Click to expand...

Hard drives and SSDs for computer use are not optimised for continuous high speed write from zero to full capacity.
 
The black magic cam writes to commodity ssd's uncompressed . Ram buffers help as well.
 
Inside is a ssd drive with a custom firmware.
Upon consulting some of colleagues that worked at Hard Drive companies, many other companies buy drives direct and load their custom firmware onto them (in this case red).
Red did this and hence that's why if you bought the same drive it wont work due to the firmware being different (according to an above post). I have not tried this, but just assuming.
If you get the the firmware then you theoretically should be able to load it on another drive.
If you like to tinker and you are ok with voiding your warranty be my guest, but understand the consequences.
Also I hope I dont get banned for this.
 
Nick Timmons said:
Mike, this is pure speculation, but are you suggesting Red runs custom firmware on the SSD to avoid dropouts? I'm not sure I understand why that would be necessary, as practically any SSD on the market can sustain several times the throughput the Epic currently outputs at. What is your rationale?
Click to expand...

Sustain without any risk of interruption by recalibration, garbage collection, or any other housekeeping functions, under ALL conditions, for however long a take lasts?

Yes, an EPIC is a computer - but it's a **real-time** computer, and that is a very different beast. Trust me.

Mike
 
Barry Bishop said:
Inside is a ssd drive with a custom firmware.
Upon consulting some of colleagues that worked at Hard Drive companies, many other companies buy drives direct and load their custom firmware onto them (in this case red).
Red did this and hence that's why if you bought the same drive it wont work due to the firmware being different (according to an above post). I have not tried this, but just assuming.
If you get the the firmware then you theoretically should be able to load it on another drive.
If you like to tinker and you are ok with voiding your warranty be my guest, but understand the consequences.
Also I hope I dont get banned for this.
Click to expand...

The firmware you speak of is proprietary copyright RDC firmware, I'm pretty sure... Anyone treading in this area should do so with caution and discretion. And I suspect any attempt to SELL the fruits of your labours would result in a swift visit from Jim's famously undefeated lawyers.

The only *licit* way to work in this area, hypothetically, would be to clean-room reverse-engineer the functionality of the firmware, not to rip it off and copy it! That would be non-trivial.

Mike
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
Sustain without any risk of interruption by recalibration, garbage collection, or any other housekeeping functions, under ALL conditions, for however long a take lasts?

Yes, an EPIC is a computer - but it's a **real-time** computer, and that is a very different beast. Trust me.

Mike
Click to expand...

So what kind of witchcraft does Blackmagic Design know if they can make a $325 device that writes at extremely high sustained rates to consumer SSDs?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Extremely high? Like 5K at 3:1?

Check your data rates carefully... if you want 1080P, no problem. If you want more... you need to actually check and test the media.

Jim

Bruce Allen said:
So what kind of witchcraft does Blackmagic Design know if they can make a $325 device that writes at extremely high sustained rates to consumer SSDs?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Jannard said:
Extremely high? Like 5K at 3:1?

Check your data rates carefully... if you want 1080P, no problem. If you want more... you need to actually check and test the media.

Jim
Click to expand...

It might be... 5K at 3:1 is around 150MB/sec, right?

Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shutte - $325

Writes uncompressed 10bit 1080p 4:2:2 60i with audio.

That is: 165MB/sec.

Guaranteed to work on a $400 512GB Crucial M4 according to Blackmagic FAQ.

165MB/sec is plenty for any format SCARLET supports, and most formats that EPIC supports, right?

Brian Iannone said:
Try 2.5K at half the data rate (960 Mbps) a REDMAG can write at.

Am I the only one who laughed out loud when I first read those specifications? Ha! =D
Click to expand...

No, not their cinema camera. Their $325 Hyperdeck Shuttle. Which writes at much higher data rates.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Red mags cost what they cost. It's part of the price of owning the cam. On the whole, if you look at the final total, Scarlets and Epics are still pretty reasonable for what they do.

So maybe they make some extra profit on the SSDs, why should they not?

You want to know what's REALLY expensive? R&D.
 
Rob Ruffo said:
Red mags cost what they cost. It's part of the price of owning the cam. On the whole, if you look at the final total, Scarlets and Epics are still pretty reasonable for what they do.

So maybe they make some extra profit on the SSDs, why should they not?

You want to know what's REALLY expensive? R&D.
Click to expand...

Agreed. When I jumped in the Epic wagon, I knew what I was going into in terms of media price and accessories price. Red is not Sony or Apple, big corporations with huge distributors and high volume ordering which can bring down prices. Its a price to pay for reliability and R&D. Red is actually making an effort to help Scarlet users with the new 32GB cards. When are those coming? I think some of the media price complaints will go with the introduction of these. They should be in the same ballpark price wise to P2 Cards and SxS cards (pure speculation)

As an Epic owner, however, I' m really looking forward to what the 512 GB open up for us in terms of frame rates. However, I'm going to have to weight the Price vs gain scenario here. Will the 512GB RED colored media appear in any other form? (Smaller GB count, less expensive?) . I would see myself getting one of these only for the High Speed Stuff, but 512GB seems too much. Maybe a 256 GB and on the limit, a 128GB one?
 
What's the big deal in the SSD having a high profit? If they didn't, then the cameras themselves would be that more expensive.

It doesn't matter either way.
 
I would love cheap recording media as much as the next guy and I have been tearing myself apart about the RED MAG prices too, but when it comes down to it - it's a matter of "balance". RED probably wouldn't be able to sell Scarlets and Epics at the current price if they were able to shoot on standard off-the-shelf SSDs.

It's a business model. It's not evil. Get over it (or buy a BMD Shuttle 2 and live with 1080p) ;-)
 
Film negative costs more......and RedMags are reuseable.

Just sayin'.
 
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