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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I need some Glass help

Rick Darge

Rick Darge

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For personal projects I'm getting ready to jump on the Nikon train until Red ships their 18-85. I need some help and the lens board seems dead right now..

For low cost glass, what does everyone like? I guess you can go used PL, rehoused Nikon PL/Canon, Nikon mount? It seems like any still lens will need some modifications to make them work for cine cameras but I'm thinking of getting a handful of Zeiss zF lenses and having a focus gear installed and the hard-click f/stop removed and maybe putting an 80mm front on the end.

I know some users like Sanjin love Leica, but what mounts are you using to put these onto your Red?

Other than buying a $30,000 Used PL set, what are indie shooters doing to make the Red work for them?

Thanks
 
Hi Richard,
What are you planning on shooting?
If budget is the main concern, then I suggest this:
Nikon mount for everything, shooting doc stuff is a question of practice... shooting with manual lenses, really not that hard, just takes practice,
and shooting drama, music video, and everything else, takes getting the ac to practice pulling in the opposite direction (and/or limiting the amount of focus pulling to be done)
Nikons seem to give the best picture for the buck. Of course, they should be in good shape. You can get them serviced fairly inexpensively. Some will say hell no use leica or whatever. Personally, from what I've seen on the various lens tests that Sanjin has put forward, I think that the variations are slight, and that given the flexibility of the RedRaw image, the best money and time should be spent with the colour corrector (the person, not the gear). for low budget AKA schmoozing. Course, if you have a kick ass film, it shouldn't be hard to convince someone to do it.
Also, I think Doug Underdahl was talking about making a leica mount. Alternatively, you could make one yourself, or in conjunction with a machine shop. It doesn't seem to be that difficult. Just gather the materials and give them the specs, using the front of your pl mount as the template....i'm thinking of giving it a go when when my cam shows.

EDIT: should mention that i'm planning on shooting docs, and some drama and comedy stuff, so somewhat of a wider gamet of stuff
 
Low cost BNCR 35mm Prime Lens set with Red BNCR Mount

Low cost BNCR 35mm Prime Lens set with Red BNCR Mount

A possible solution to you lens problem is 6 lens set of BNCR Cine T lenses with gears and a custom one of a kind engineered BNCR Mount for the RED camera. It is currently on EBAY with a minimum opening bid of $7,000.00. You can search for it on EBAY with the words RED BNCR and it it item 330227782609
 
Methinks you should rent the glass you need until that 18-85 ships.

If you already have Nikon glass, then go for the Nikon mount. I wouldn't go buy any glass just for an interim solution, that just doesn't make financial sense in my mind. not when that 18-85 is just a few more weeks, maybe a couple months away.

But I suppose this depends on what you intend to shoot, how often, how much rental rates are around you, etc..

OTOH, you can pick up a Nikon mount and a Nikkor 17-35 plus a 50mm and 85mm all together for around $2500 if you shop around a bit. And there is no firm delivery date for that 18-85. Do you have a reservation for the 18-85?
 
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I do have a reservation for the 18-85.. Not sure which number I am but I was one of the first few to put money down on it way back when.. I'm pretty sure Red is honoring that list still..

Is there an inexpensive way to modify that 17-35 so it has HARD stops in the focus wheel?
 
rgdfilmsRED said:
Is there an inexpensive way to modify that 17-35 so it has HARD stops in the focus wheel?
Click to expand...

Not that I'm aware of. The lack of hard stops and the terribly short focus throw (1/4 turn of the barrel is the entire focus range), is reason enough not to even consider the lens. But it's a very nice lens when you hit focus... I've seen some nice shots from RED with this lens. It is do-able.
 
"Is there an inexpensive way to modify that 17-35 so it has HARD stops in the focus wheel?"

century optic's will modify the canon 17-35 ( = century 17-35) .. around 15k ... many rental houses have them ... you might look for a used one ? 8k ?

also there is a company ( can't remember name) that sells sets of nikons ( older manual lens, remains nikon mount) that they take out the clicks in the aperture and they make the focus smooth , add gear rings to them ...
 
coki said:
Hi,
I think it was lost in so many posts.
www.rplens.com is your answer.
The man is Peter Sensor. I ordered Nikon 17-35 and 80-200 from him.
He can make all the modifications for you for any lens you want to buy.(including hard stops)
Click to expand...

What do you think of his high speed set of primes? 35mm, 50mm, 85, F1.4's I am on the verge of ordering.
 
Richard,

just go with Nikon F on RED, 17-35mm zoom, then you can find an
older AF 35-80mm and 80-210mm zooms and also some "superspeed"
primes like a 50mm and 85mm f1.4 and you should be safe to get some
money out of it.

Or rent Arri/Zeiss Master Primes if you have a project to pay for it.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
If you already have Nikon glass, then go for the Nikon mount. I wouldn't go buy any glass just for an interim solution, that just doesn't make financial sense in my mind.
Click to expand...
Whilst that is certainly worth looking at closely, it depends on what glass you buy and from where. Lenses hold their value well if bought second-hand, and in fact - due to the preponderance of low-cost 35mm adapters these days - Nikon MF glass is actually increasing in price, at the moment! If I were to sell all my Nikkors now, I'd probably get twice what I paid for them, if not more.

Whether or not that's a UK-centric view I don't know (but from the little I've heard on forums from over the pond, it seems not), and how long that situation will last is debatable, but I think it's unlikely in the current climate that good quality Nikkor MF primes are going to see a massive depreciation in used price over the short term - so you may just get away with having your cake and eating it!

Of course, none of the above applies to bought-new items, which will depreciate the moment you type in your PIN...
 
4K Hub; said:
What do you think of his high speed set of primes? 35mm, 50mm, 85, F1.4's I am on the verge of ordering.
Click to expand...
I thought also to buy that set, but reading all the reviews from "nikonians" I concluded that this two zooms make most bang for the buck for me.
You will get same sharpness from both at T2.8, so if you need low light images and sharpness is not an issue, then those primes is your answer.
 
Yes, the zooms look great, but what are people doing about follow focusing? There are no hard stops so that would require a camera mod. I spoke with Peter Sensor & he thought it would cost around $850 to add a focus ring, zoom ring, put hard stops into the focus, dampen the iris blades & remove the "hard click" - This was a quote for the 17-35.

What seems to be a usable zoom from Nikon would now run $2200 w/ the mod..
 
Peter does great work. I might be looking to send a zoom to him to modify in addition to the primes I already have. But first I need to test the primes when the mount arrives.
 
rgdfilmsRED said:
Yes, the zooms look great, but what are people doing about follow focusing?
Click to expand...
I'm planning on using eng method to shoot footage with the camera, including drama, which is operate, block, and focus. I think Kubrick did this frequently with Eyes Wide Shut actually. To me, it's the best way to shoot.....but you have to know your camera and have an understanding and anticipation of movement. I'm sure many drama operators aren't comfortable with it. Or maybe I'm being naive as to the specifics of the Redone and it's operability in conjunction with still lenses.
And then there's what the germans call Fingerschpitzengefuhl (think that's spelled wrong)
Basically, that subtle fine motor control over your fingertips, in conjunction with excellent eyesight.
course i haven't tried any of this with 4k yet....
 
rgdfilmsRED said:
What seems to be a usable zoom from Nikon would now run $2200 w/ the mod..
Click to expand...

After using about 10 Nikons lenses on RED my advice would be find a local camera store that deals in a lot of used lenses and just start putting them on a SLR or RED if you get the mount.

The things to look for are the amount of focus travel to see if you could realistically focus the lens. Manual focus lenses were built to be focused by hand and they seem to work pretty well in general. They all have hard stops. BUT - check the focus rings for play. Some lenses will show image shift when you switch directions or hit the hard stop. Others have reported loose mounts affecting smooth focusing but that wasn't the case on my lenses. It was always the focus mechanism. Then check the breathing and that the zoom holds focus through the range.

As far as gears you can buy them from RedRock, Cinevate or Zacuto. Perhaps you're looking for a slicker solution than those though.

Since yours is a temporary situation I'd probably skip the aperture ring modifications unless you know you're going to rack the aperture a lot during shots. You CAN stop between apertures on a lot of lenses even though there's no indentation there. Seems odd, but I've done it.

I'm sorta settled in my mind that I'm going with the Birger mount and Canon's (now and eventually Nikon's) for the following reasons.

Modern SLR lenses were designed for digital sensors. They'll perform great with RED since RED is essentially a 24FPS Digital SLR. The resolution on the new DSLRS outclasses RED - so it's fair to believe the best of the new lenses will do well resolution-wise on RED. Both sharpness and contrast will be good.

The Birger mount eliminates the gear issue. Racking aperture will be a problem, but I rarely do it.

Birger will eventually allow Cooke lens data and Image Stabilization (on Canon IS lenses). The sensitivity on Birger will be adjustable and you get a wireless follow focus too. It appears to me at NAB that the Canon lenses held focus through the zoom range and didn't breathe too much. If I break one I can get another one fedexed from many vendors quickly.

That's a lot of value for a fraction of the price of PL mount lenses. I'm not yet convinced I'll be sacrificing much and may even get some benefit no pl mount lens offers - image stabilization. (how good is it? If it's like their other video cameras it'll be great)

I think the 18-85 RED lens does sound very nice though. So do the primes. I'm not ruling any of those out eventually.

Good Luck!!!
 
rgdfilmsRED said:
It seems like any still lens will need some modifications to make them work for cine cameras but I'm thinking of getting a handful of Zeiss zF lenses and having a focus gear installed and the hard-click f/stop removed and maybe putting an 80mm front on the end.
Click to expand...

P+S Technik have a set of cine-modified Zeiss ZF readily available: 25mm F2.8, 35mm F2.0, 50mm F1.4 and 85mm F1.4. P+S have put focus gears on them, the front is 80mm, and the iris ring is smooth (hard clicks removed). We rented them for a recent shoot, the DP was happy with them. If only they were all F1.4... (Also wish they included the 100mm macro, which I believe is the best lens in the ZF range.)

Of course they are expensive: $2700 per lens, the 85mm is $3100. Could be worth it if the 4 lens set fits your needs.

Link
 
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