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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I love quoting to student productions...

I have insurance that lets others operate my camera while I am present. Its a risk, because its my insurance, but its managed, because I am there. When there is insurance, I back off.

I often do jobs for people who can't really afford a decent R1 kit, but thats partly why I got it, and why I got the insurance I did.
 
+10,000 to Mark and Peter

I'm also a soon-to-graduate student, and I sympathize with all you established guys and gals out there dealing with students. So many students at my school don't really understand the value of people's time and gear, and sadly with many it's not arrogance, but ignorance. A lot of them count on "calling in favors" and getting gear/work from people they've worked with to get a production made. I've always tried to avoid being that guy.

Schools may not directly teach you much of practical use, but I am thankful for having an environment where I can apply my work and "for fun" research to my classes/studies, having access to school gear (for now), and meeting a couple people that I'll probably work with for a long time. Your education is what you make of it.
 
Here's one big problem with film schools. Either they try to teach you everything wihout telling you the important stuff which, they assume, you would go and find out on your own OR they limit education by doing an "emphasis" program where you specialize in one job and that's all you'll learn about.

At Chapman University, where I am, education is doled out by whatever emphasis you apply for. I'm applied as a sound designer in their grad program, mostly because I didn't know much about advanced sound design after going through my undergrad in film, so I'm learning all about that, which is good. However, if I wanted to, say, take a directing class or a producing class, I would be automatically rejected and denied access to the class, even if there were only a few students in that emphasis and there were openings for 12 additional seats. So, essentially, I'm literally not allowed to learn anything outside of my emphasis unless I can enroll in a non-majors class which just so happens to be at times that conflict with my required class schedule as a sound designer. Often these programs are far behind in film education because they fail to realize that filmmaking today involves large skillsets with people having to wear many hats along with having vast pools of knowledge outside of their designated positions.

Personally, I've had the good fortune to enroll in several extra curricular classes that discuss a lot of the business side of filmmaking so I can understand why many would be clueless about insurance, copyrights, agreements and all of those "scary" business terms that make films happen. It's just sad that they don't teach every film student about this stuff especially insurance because that seems to be a "there are companies out there, look them up online" sort of deal as far as I know as I never really hear anybody talking about it. One thing I've heard more than once is people opting for the rental house's own insurance policy but whatever that entails, I have no idea.
 
Looks like lots of mixed experience here with student productions.

The way I look at it is either I want to support them or not. I and my gear are either full rate or free. The most important thing is if I believe the project has real potential.

I did 4 short films for students over the last 2 years, both my time and equipment all for free.

The first film was selected for competition at Cannes and the last one was just shown this weekend at the Berlinale. The other two well... :furious3: lets just say student films can be a pain also...

The situation here in Eastern Europe is certainly different than lets say LA and the fact that there is very little money means projects without sponsorship won't happen at all.

While I didn't study film per se and went to art school I also received a great deal of help from the business community on a few projects.

For me its ultimately a way to feel my karma is balanced but the fact that two of the films received so much attention I find very satisfying not to mention how much fun I had in Cannes.

Remember that today's students are tomorrow's clients!
 
Zack Birlew said:
[...] so I can understand why many would be clueless about insurance, copyrights, agreements and all of those "scary" business terms that make films happen. It's just sad that they don't teach every film student about this stuff especially insurance because that seems to be a "there are companies out there, look them up online" sort of deal as far as I know as I never really hear anybody talking about it.
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This is exactly how it is at my school. We have one class involving "business," and it is offered to second-semester seniors. So at a time when students are expected to be well into production of senior projects (let alone the countless other productions form previous years), we are just being introduced to things like contracts, insurance, and introductory business concepts. It is always that "sort of deal" where instructors tell you releases/permits and insurance are important, but they don't really go any further.

This is stuff that should be covered in the first two years, not the last moment before everyone's on their own in the "real world" (which we're reminded of the "horrors" of daily).
 
paulherrin said:
as a student myself...

there are some things you can learn with any camera (or preferably without one at all).

but there are a lot of things you can't learn or accomplish technically or visually without professional equipment.

if it was all just the same, the hobbit would be filmed on the iPhone. having decent gear to work with is really important.

and let's not get into a debate about learning in the shallow end - cause i've seen it and it's a freakin baby pool. and that's not "good enough".
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There's a huge gray area now when people say professional equipment.

Yet if a student wants to use professional equipment, that means they should learn what all the costs are, be it insurance, late fees, etc.

Sticker shock happens, but that's why it's important to research the costs.That's like production 101.
 
Shawn Nelson said:
I didnt Craig, that would have been an ass of me. I politely responded. I'm just having a bit of fun on 'user.

But my snark never-actually-said-it comment on HDSLRs is true. For $999 you can BUY a GH2. For a student it doesnt get any better. Go forth and learn.
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Shawn how long you been shoot?
 
Another approach is to put the students to work.

Get them to lug gear for you, set up lights, be a runner on set, AND THEN they get cheap gear.

They win twice. First they get to be on a pro set and see the equipment being operated and treated properly, then they benefit from getting to use it.

Everybody wins.
 
College is well in the past for me at this point, but I got a degree in Computer Science not film.

That being said I'll refer to my quote,

"A painting is not judged by the brush that made it."

I'm not an artistic person, but I think the above applies to production.
 
jimhare said:
Another approach is to put the students to work.

Get them to lug gear for you, set up lights, be a runner on set, AND THEN they get cheap gear.

They win twice. First they get to be on a pro set and see the equipment being operated and treated properly, then they benefit from getting to use it.

Everybody wins.
Click to expand...

That's how I've started. Met a local DP, worked/still work on stuff with/for him. Great guy - best education I've had. It's a win for everybody, and can build good relationships.
 
K. cromwell said:
Shawn how long you been shoot?
Click to expand...

Let's see. Shot on home super8 tape for like 6 years, then at college did a short in SVHS, then shot on MiniDV for like 4 years then a couple overlapping years of HDV then got my Red in 2007 and shooting with it ever since.
 
Mickey Conway said:
"The student is the future of cinematography"
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I'd say that the student is one of the possible futures of cinematography. Studying film is one approach to becoming a DP, but far from the only one. Nor does it guarantee success.

As they said in my film school, becoming a film maker is 1/3 watching films, 1/3 reading about films and 1/3 making films. (I'd say more that the ratio should be 1/4, 1/4 and 1/2) This may or may not be done in an institution.
 
I'm also a Chapman student like the poster above, but undergrad. My experience has been quite different, even though my emphasis isn't producing, I had to learn some of the basics involved in producing a film. Everybody in the undergrad film production program has to produce or UPM an advanced production. We are required to get a filming permit (from the city) for every location even if we are shooting at a private residence. Also, we need to apply for production insurance through the school, and get insurance certificates for every rental company we rent from. Also, we need to get additional insurance for towing large trailer/generators etc. Furthermore, we also have to get workers comp etc. The University wont green light us if we don't get everything done properly.
I personally don't like producing at all (I'm a cine emphasis), and it was kind of a painful experience for me, but in retrospective it was totally worth it.

I don't feel there's anything wrong with asking if a company offers a student discount. Most student films (senior thesis projects) have a budget of anywhere from $8 000 to $80 000 (so we still bring a good amount of money to the companies we rent from). In my experience, most students are quite reasonable, and don't expect to get stuff for free, but there's noting wrong with getting a quote from a few companies and compare their rates. Many rental houses are actually quite student friendly and offer student discounts right on their websites...
 
jimhare said:
Another approach is to put the students to work.

Get them to lug gear for you, set up lights, be a runner on set, AND THEN they get cheap gear.

They win twice. First they get to be on a pro set and see the equipment being operated and treated properly, then they benefit from getting to use it.

Everybody wins.
Click to expand...

This is excellent advice. I would have jumped at the exchange in college.
 
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