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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I love quoting to student productions...

Shawn Nelson

Shawn Nelson

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Them: "We want to rent your Red pkg"
Me: "Great! Here's some low rates for you"
Them: "Excellent! We'll take it"
Me: "Okay cool, issue insurance cert to me at ..."
Them: "Insurance? Whoa, we can't afford that too"
Me: "My lenses are worth over $4,000 apiece, the camera setup is over $50,000, you cant afford to trip"
Them: "Then would you like to network on our set and operate your cam yourself for free and also give us the camera for free on your insurance policy?"
Me: "This is why god invented HDSLRs"

Ah! They seem nice, and I was a student once, but I shot on free public broadcast cameras, then shot on DV for years, etc.

Damn, I'm becoming a cranky old guy and I'm not even out of my 20s :furious3:
 
Snobby? Do you think I have $thousands in my backpocket to cover the damage when they drop my prime or accidentally dont lock the tripod and the whole thing goes over? What is snobby about wanting to make sure you dont lose your gear?
 
Craig W. Bickerstaff said:
It's not that you turned them down it's that you added that snarky attitude to it.
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I didnt Craig, that would have been an ass of me. I politely responded. I'm just having a bit of fun on 'user.

But my snark never-actually-said-it comment on HDSLRs is true. For $999 you can BUY a GH2. For a student it doesnt get any better. Go forth and learn.
 
as a student myself...

there are some things you can learn with any camera (or preferably without one at all).

but there are a lot of things you can't learn or accomplish technically or visually without professional equipment.

if it was all just the same, the hobbit would be filmed on the iPhone. having decent gear to work with is really important.

and let's not get into a debate about learning in the shallow end - cause i've seen it and it's a freakin baby pool. and that's not "good enough".
 
Exactly, there's a balance between renters not being snobby and students not wanting everything for free. A lot of students these days seem to be ignorant of the costs of real equipment.
 
you're right, there's a big difference between asking for a favor and expecting one. it's all about attitude on both sides. i don't fault anyone, both sides are involved. and there's no reason to be negligent with the equipment you've been blessed with. if you need to uncrank, go out in the woods for a few days. you can even take your camera with you!
 
Reminds me of this classic movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

While students are prone to ask for these things, I find people of all walks of life will ask for things all the time. Even if they drive up in a BMW, they'll still use some of these lines if that's their modus operandi.

I love that short movie though.

...I wonder if they asked for any favors when they shot it. :)
 
Nobodies debating the need to work on good equipment, what's debatable is the people who come to rent equipment/people and their attitude.

Example:

I have a DIT cart that I would say there's probably 20 grands worth of gear on and I come with it with the rental fee, for students I will and have discounted up to 50% of my usual fee, because we were all there once. But time and again I've been faced with people who will book me pay me a deposit and then come shooting week will ring me up and say oh I need my deposit back we've found someone with a laptop to do it instead, or people who will try and put me on deferred payment contracts or people who just dont pay me flat out.

Now I'm not saying that this doesn't happen with other clients, but students account for a vast majority of my issues. This makes me not want to work with students. I find that the professionalism encountered on a student set is just non existent, and at time downright dangerous. And there's no excuse, look at people like Joseph Hutson for example, he' young and at the point where if he walked into my office to rent me I would immediately have alarm bells ringing in my head, but time and time again he's shown himself to be professional and trustworthy to many people, and its opening doors for him, big doors.

Students need to realize that for many of us this is our livelihood, we need our equipment to put food on the table, so don't insult me by offering me 100 dollars a day, don't treat me and my equipment like crap when I'm on set, don't try and come to me without insurance, unless your putting 50k in escrow to pay me for loss of equipment and work while I replace it.

Basically treat me with the same respect I treat you and we will have a fantastic working relationship, don't and I'm liable to turn you away. And the productions that have that professionalism and respect are the ones that have prospered at the film festivals and at the ad company meetings, because it breeds an atmosphere of success when everyone on set is working together and has a healthy respect for each others jobs, thats when great cinema is made in my opinion. If you don't have the budget for a big production, then come and talk to me, explain the situation, tell me why I should give a discount, and ask nicely for god sake, please and thank you get you a long way in my office and the office of pretty much everyone I know.

Don't demand, be polite and pleasant and we can work well, students, small companies, big companies, its all the same ethos.

EDIT: Jochen my student days are behind me but my ramen days are not yet :P
 
Jay Gannon said:
Exactly, there's a balance between renters not being snobby and students not wanting everything for free. A lot of students these days seem to be ignorant of the costs of real equipment.
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Producers as well.
 
Shawn Nelson said:
Ah! They seem nice, and I was a student once, but I shot on free public broadcast cameras, then shot on DV for years, etc.
Click to expand...
I was on a Student Set and they were talking about this course they were taking on how to get Government Grants, I went on a Rant. I said, "See that Truck Driver over there, He'd probably rather be shooting a movie, why would you want to steal from him so you could make a film". You're just stealing from taxpayers so you can indulge yourself. Why steal from taxpayers so you can make a movie? Raise money from people who want to invest, don't steal it from the taxpayer. They were silent, I don't think they knew what I was talking about.
 
jay, you had some terribly poignant things to say. thanks for sharing.

and george, that's an awesome story.
 
I'm technically a film student... That aside, so far I've learned nothing at my school that I hadn't already taught myself.

I think the issue with students being unprofessional is that many of them think "oh, filming is going to be fun!" and then they throw their parents into debt for a degree they don't appreciate. If you work with students that have tried to do things on their own or interned for a studio already, I think their level of professionalism will be leaps and bounds above the casuals.

I'm sorry you had to deal with students like this. I rarely find myself siding with my peers...
 
paulherrin said:
if it was all just the same, the hobbit would be filmed on the iPhone. having decent gear to work with is really important.
Click to expand...

The difference between an HDSLR and Red One is entirely different than the difference between an iPhone and a Red EPIC. What a terrible comparison...

paulherrin said:
semantics. i'm not trying to get into that.
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No, it's not semantics. What you said and Martin said are two different things entirely. Shawn wasn't blessed with anything, his camera wasn't a gift from God that he should feel inclined to share with low income film students. He payed for the camera himself and if he wants to rent it out to students he can, but if he doesn't he shouldn't be guilted. I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh, but it's the truth.
 
I live in a university town, and in my opinion, film major is the new English major. Lots of kids doing it because it is a fun and interesting way to get a degree. It breeds quantity, not quality.
 
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