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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I just got kicked out for using the wrong mics. What did I do wrong?

Wow, maybe they should have hired the secretary to record for them since they clearly were the "experts" and it only takes 5 minutes to definitively and singularly identify the best "industry standard" mic on the planet. Red flag goes up whenever a client dismisses your trade with these types of blanket statements. They are devaluing your service/equipment, therefore putting them in a position to say you are not worth your rate. I've actually heard clients say: "Why should we hire a professional photographer?? All he does is push a button".

Michael Romano said:
Mics are like fine wine. Many of the older ones are much better. As has been pointed out already, your kit is fine - Their heads are screwed on wrong.
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I couldn't agree more! Great mics, if taken care of properly, are great like glass, they not only never become obsolete, but can also get better with age, become more unique. Unfortunately this is lost on all the "measurebators" out there, just quoting specs alone and missing the whole point on the character and personality of mics and sound recording. Now throw money, politics, deep creative and financial insecurity or just plain unscroupulousness into the mix, we just have a toxic work situation.
 
I'll echo what Phil Jeff & others have said. As an audio industry professional working on gold records & F100 projects for decades, I can say definitively your client is being an a-hole & likely had some other ax to grind using this as an excuse.

do a side by side recording of the same source / pres & you'll see there isn't a drastic difference between the Mics. Certainly nothing a little post wouldn't change.

Some of the very finest Mics in the world are vintage specimens like the AKG c12, telefunken, Neumann & even sennheiser like the 421 & 441.

If the character of the mic was such an important part of spec why'd they say nothing until the shoot about it?

Haters gonna hate. Stand your ground.


Peace,

PCG
 
Hey David just FYI, while the 57 & 58 are indeed standards, this is largely due to their being so tough in the field ( 57s getting bashed with drum sticks & vocalists swinging their 58s around / dropping them on the floor). That said, there are much better Mics for our application ;)

PCG

David Kuhn said:
My kids are both musicians... when they were looking for mic's I did some research and got them Shure SM57's and 58's - which are still some of the best selling pro audio mic's mic in the world - released in 1965 (the 57's are SAE recommended for drum applications according to Wikipedia - which knows all).

I think the guy has an unrealistic idea of the technical changes in microphones over the past 50 years.
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We have many sets of both mics in our Hire inventory. I first used the MKH416T as a BBC recordist in the 80's and then the MKH60 and others in the new range in late 80's when they were first to market.

The MKH60 is lower noise and handles higher dynamic range. It leo less robust and will stop working in very high heat in a wind gag in Florida for instance they can stop working temporarily in a Rycote basket. just cool it down and it returns to normal.

The MKH416 is a fine mic. Its more robust than the newer series.

The big difference between the two is an MKH416 will phase on a pan and can be more apparent when moving against a back ground noise, traffic or sea wash etc. An MKH60 is more immune to phasing, not totally but less apparent.

I would not use an MKH416 as part of a stereo pair with an MKH30 but there are those that do. A 30/60 pair is OK for MS dialogue and works fine. It is not OK for the most part for wild tracks as the mic is too directional for a good stereo stage where an MKH30/40pair is much more suitable for very good MS stereo wild tracks etc.

They both have their uses.
 
Paul Ellington said:
The 416 is a very good mic, that being said I wouldn't want to use it for on set audio because I find very metallic sounding. I much prefer the DPA 4017B but it's really a matter of taste.

- E
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I'm no sound guy, but I certainly see the DPA mics and labs more and more on sets lately as opposed to the 416
 
The 416 is a nice mic, but the sound itself is a bit hard. Though for harsh exterior, it's highly recommended. I see it as the beginners mic every accomplished soundguy have in their bag just in case.
You always use it once in a while and it saves the day. It reminds me of my Ronford Baker F7.

Tell them about the Neumann U47, or Neumann KM84, they both have more than 50 years, they still cost an arm and a leg and they sound perfect.
 
Would love an update on how this all ended. It's the most bizarre situation I've ever heard of.

Although I was on a shoot the other day with my Red as DP and the makeup guy kept telling me how Red is awful compared to the Alexa and that we'd made a massive mistake using Reds on the shoot. Which was a strange thing to be telling me of all people.
 
PC Greene said:
Some of the very finest Mics in the world are vintage specimens like the AKG c12, telefunken, Neumann & even sennheiser like the 421 & 441.
PCG
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Not having the latest mic means nothing. It's like yelling at the violinist because he shows up with a Stradivarius and not the newest Yamaha model.

Too bad you had to bear the brunt of this client's attitude. Agree, there had to be some other factor involved rather than your mic setup.
 
PC Greene said:
Hey David just FYI, while the 57 & 58 are indeed standards, this is largely due to their being so tough in the field ( 57s getting bashed with drum sticks & vocalists swinging their 58s around / dropping them on the floor). That said, there are much better Mics for our application ;)

PCG
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No Doubt... those mic's seem pretty purpose built for instruments and live performance vocals... but I think they make the point that new mic designs aren't necessarily better, the music industry has changed a LOT over the last 30-40 years, but I still see 57's and 58's all over the place.
 
I'd tell these idiots to identify 2 tracks recorded with different mics. =) After they can't identify the "industry standard mic" you call them an idiot.
 
Jarred, maybe you should give the name of this beverage company and their contact info and see how many calls it takes to correct these idiots funny ideas?

At least they should have given you a chance to prove yourself and your gear before firing you.


Jarred Jones said:
Today, I was getting together my standard gear set. Boom, Senn MKH 416s, Sound Devices recorder, and some other things.

I was with a high end production studio who'd done quite a few shoots with this set up and said they had flawless results. They kept telling me it was "the industry standard."

However, upon arriving at the client's studio (A beverage company I will not name), the producer and director asked us what mics we were using. We hadn't started recording yet.

We already told their office earlier we were bringing MKH 416's since it's an exterior shoot and confirmed this with their secretary. However, when we repeated this to them at the set, THEY FLIPPED OUT.

They said:

"Why would you bring that ancient mic to a professional shoot? I had my secretary look up that mic and she told me it was over 40 YEARS OLD. She managed to find a better version of it called the MKH 60 within 5 minutes. WHY WOULDN'T YOU BRING THAT? YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO CALL YOURSELF A PROFESSIONAL STUDIO AND YOU CAN'T EVEN ADAPT TO THE NEW INDUSTRY STANDARD?"

He kept going on and ON about how bad it was and how we should have known better. He terminated our contract and now my boss is saying we might sue him.

I don't understand what I did wrong. Is the 416 really that bad and out of date now? We'd never lost a gig because of our equipment, but if the 416s are old news, should we just replace all of ours with MKH 60s?
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Sounds like you guys actually "lucked" out.

Bob Gundu said:
Don't need clients like that. Total BS. Better off without them.
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