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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I just 'FLUT-ed' my pants.......

Chris Parker

Chris Parker

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......and it smelled good.

Seriously though, what is FLUT? Is it the holy grail many of us have been patiently waiting for that involves fully transferable, useable look management when working with the RED/EPIC and its footage???

Please explain....someone......Jim???
 
I believe Jim mentioned somewhere that EPIC/Scarlet will have LUT support. FLUT is some kinda floating point LUT from what ive gathered.
 
Yes, some answers...
No, No, much better let us dream :wink5:

my bet is yes, "F" is for Field. Accurate LUT from and between EPIC and RCX.
 
I listened to the podcast with Ted and it sounds like FLUT will definitely stand for floating (point) look up table.
 
LUT

LUT

You want what you see on the monitor on the camera to match the footage as processed out of REDCINE etc.

To do that you need a set of numbers that tell where "all" the colors are, that is more than what the original meta-data and REDCINE etc. adjustments could do.

By having a common LUT for both the camera and the de-Bayer program you can get output that matches better.

But since you have RAWish data saved, you can always process it with another LUT to get other looks later if you need to match other footage or change your mind.

That would seem to be why they would be talking about LUT. Floating point lets you get more colors with finer adjustment, and Floating point will work with any bit depth in the camera, so both 12 and 14bit would match closer maybe.
 
Dan,

I suspect the FLUT might indeed replace rsx as a sidecar XML style file that goes with the footage.

This means that future versions of RocketCine-X and Red Alert could also create the Flut file.

This will bew a huge asset and timesaver and it brings post farther intot he production process.

I remember reading an article about Steven Soderbergh working with early versions of RED on his films and him pulling up looks he had done in on set and during the shoot in RED alert in the final grading room to help match what he was trying to accomplish.

This would take that a step closer and give every DP what they really want. Total control over the image. :) LOL

Really, seriously. It would be nice to establish some base looks, but I still think that the heart of RED is exposing to the right and using the histogram. Exposing according to an FLUT would not really mean you are getting the most out of the sensor.

David
 
It is a much more extensive program... you will be very happy. We really don't want to explain it to our competition quite yet.

Jim
 
David Battistella said:
Dan,

I suspect the FLUT might indeed replace rsx as a sidecar XML style file that goes with the footage.

This means that future versions of RocketCine-X and Red Alert could also create the Flut file.

This will bew a huge asset and timesaver and it brings post farther intot he production process.

I remember reading an article about Steven Soderbergh working with early versions of RED on his films and him pulling up looks he had done in on set and during the shoot in RED alert in the final grading room to help match what he was trying to accomplish.

This would take that a step closer and give every DP what they really want. Total control over the image. :) LOL

Really, seriously. It would be nice to establish some base looks, but I still think that the heart of RED is exposing to the right and using the histogram. Exposing according to an FLUT would not really mean you are getting the most out of the sensor.

David[/QUOTE

I think exposing for the "look" you ultimately intend is the great asset of having looks that you can apply to monitoring - which already exists in the RED.

This way everyone - DP, wardrobe, make up, art department are able to make adjustments according to the way things will ultimately be graded!

I.E. change out the white shirt, go more subtle on the make up FX, etc.

Of course we can always "check the RAW and make sure we are protecting things.

It sounds like FLUT's will make this process easier - managing the look in to dailies and post.
Click to expand...
 
Dylan Macleod said:
David Battistella said:
Of course we can always "check the RAW and make sure we are protecting things.

It sounds like FLUT's will make this process easier - managing the look in to dailies and post.
Click to expand...

Dylan,

I think that the most useful thing is to manage the dallies, etc. A rough I idea of the look is best. Nothing out of the camera, is maximized or broadcast safe, ect.

With the exception of a few DP's (me and you included, I think) the looks are not the be all end all. The point of RED ( to me) is that it is not WYSIWYG, it's more like WYSIclose, but the colorist is going to make this look unreal!

I want a FLUT to give me consistency through the workflow, that's it. I don't want to a hand anything over saying. That's it. This is the look right out of the camera.

It's not feasible or creative to expect that. The best a FLUT can be is a Color management thing that goes through the chain.

1. Shoot.
2. on board LCD
3. EVF
4. HDMI
5. HDSDI
6. Dailies

They all look the same. If FLUT accomplishes this I'd be happy.

"For now I will call the FLUT a RED Color management system that provides consistency throughout the various stages of production."

Only Jim can tell us what else it will do.

So much more goes into a Color correction session, in terms of scene balancing and shot to shot minor luminance changes, etc, that it would be unreal to expect to much more from the FLUT.

David
Click to expand...
 
David Battistella said:
Dylan Macleod said:
Dylan,

I think that the most useful thing is to manage the dallies, etc. A rough I idea of the look is best. Nothing out of the camera, is maximized or broadcast safe, ect.

With the exception of a few DP's (me and you included, I think) the looks are not the be all end all. The point of RED ( to me) is that it is not WYSIWYG, it's more like WYSIclose, but the colorist is going to make this look unreal!

I want a FLUT to give me consistency through the workflow, that's it. I don't want to a hand anything over saying. That's it. This is the look right out of the camera.

It's not feasible or creative to expect that. The best a FLUT can be is a Color management thing that goes through the chain.

1. Shoot.
2. on board LCD
3. EVF
4. HDMI
5. HDSDI
6. Dailies

They all look the same. If FLUT accomplishes this I'd be happy.

"For now I will call the FLUT a RED Color management system that provides consistency throughout the various stages of production."

Only Jim can tell us what else it will do.

So much more goes into a Color correction session, in terms of scene balancing and shot to shot minor luminance changes, etc, that it would be unreal to expect to much more from the FLUT.

David
Click to expand...

It takes some TLC, but this is always how I have done "dailies" with RED. Either by applying a look in camera and making sure (i.e. managing in post) that the look gets to the dailies. Or by creating looks after the fact in REDALERT to send along with dailies.

Chris, and his company Bling have done this very well on a number of occasions for me.

It is already possible.

I hope that FLUT is a system that is Easier to manage (that's a capital E) :-)
Click to expand...
 
Dylan Macleod said:
David Battistella said:
It takes some TLC, but this is always how I have done "dailies" with RED. Either by applying a look in camera and making sure (i.e. managing in post) that the look gets to the dailies. Or by creating looks after the fact in REDALERT to send along with dailies.

Chris, and his company Bling have done this very well on a number of occasions for me.

It is already possible.

I hope that FLUT is a system that is Easier to manage (that's a capital E) :-)
Click to expand...

Yes. I understand it is possible now, but the idea of possibly implementing XML will make it more powerful and indeed easier.

This is a service I have offered to myself too. I'm sure The FLUT will make it
much easier to manage this through the digital workflow.

I know that Chris has extensive "video village" knowledge and that is much more important in baked in HD shoots than it is in Red.

David

David.
Click to expand...
 
First of all, Jim's teasing post has made me FLUT in my pants....again.

Next, I like the discussion Dylan and David are having. I agree that the beauty of shooting RED was always that you could 'treat it like film' and not HD, where exposure is still king, and colors can be worried about later.

But.....to Dylan's point, hair/makeup and MORE importantly wardrobe and art dept. DO need to see accurate color representation IF they can. They very much appreciate an accurate representation (only VERY few DPs I work with go to the trouble that Dylan does to offer this) of what the colors will look like. The art director often asks that exact question. "Is that how the walls actually look??"

Anyways, for the actual picture, no need to judge colors on set, as David says, exposure is really the important factor. For the art dept. and wardrobe, accurate color on all monitors will be a treat.

For a DP, this flut system will really be good. I see the biggest benefit being that the final grading can access this info. (kind of like a CDL now - but hopefully with MORE control) and get to where the DP was as a starting point instantly, saving more of that high budget grading time for creativity. And hell, if the DP then decides, "What was I thinking?!? Hit reset, and go from RAW" this is also do-able.

Final grading will be more efficient if the FLUT will get out of my pants and into a working RED workflow.......come on Jim. You guys aren't too busy or anything are ya?!?!?
 
It seems what we are talking about here already exists. no?

I can create looks and input them in to the camera.

Those looks (depending on the workflow) will travel with the footage and be applied to the dailies in a non destructive way (i.e. metadata). Then stripped away for the final color correct?
 
3D

3D

Dylan Macleod said:
It seems what we are talking about here already exists. no?
Click to expand...

If they are going to save a 3D FLUT rather than just the grading controls information then you have more detailed matching of not just the sensor data, but also the monitor or projector used, since a 3D FLUT can remap the colors and distort the gambit in a more defined way.(?)
 
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