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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I hate gamma!

Martin Weiss

Martin Weiss

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Sometimes it really flabberghasts me how Apple does not solve simple problems that have been around for a long, long while.

Today I got stung by the QT gamma bug. Using FCP and Clipfinder I made a short demofilm, rendered everything out with RA to AppleProres422, conformed it in Clipfinder and everything looks just fine in FCP. But if I now export it to .h264, everything looks washed out. :banghead:

Checking some on-line forums I quickly learn that this is a very common problem, that has been around for at least 2 years. Very high levels of frustration accross the boards. What I learn is that there is some gamma information encoded into the QT, and - funny enough - it works fine when playing in QT Windows, but not on QT Apple.
I tried uploading it to vimeo, but still, everything looks less that it should be.
Further researching, I find a command-tool that scraps that "gamma atom" (freeware tool named "QTGammaStripper"). I run it, only to find out that there is no gamma atom attached to the QT file.

So - how do I fix this, since I would like to upload the video in its best quality (and I am not talking compression here) to Vimeo?

Thanks for any help!
 
Apple should just go PC gamma across everything and be done with it!
 
Hie Martin here is a tip I copied a while ago, I can't find the thread anymore. I think that tip is from a french men can't remember is name (rami maybe) but thanks to him.
Cheers

- In RedAlert when you export your R3D file to a Quicktime File with QT codec set to “None” then you get a file with no gamma issue! It means that your file looks the same whatever you check the QT pref Color Compatibility or not. Gamma won’t change. Best of all you can export your file to whatever you want (Apple ProRes 422 HQ for example) and your file will still look good. Gamma won’t change even if you you check the QT pref Color Compatibility or not.
Question is why can’t we do it directly from RedAlert?

- If you exported your R3D file to a Quicktime File and have this Gamma problem you still can get rid of that issue. How? Well, you’ll have to export your file (command E).
Then click Options… Check Settings and Size so that your file remains the same.
Click on Filter > Settings > ColorSync
Go to “Source Profile” and select your Calibrated Monitor’s name (for example “Display Monitor Calibrated”) which Gamma setting is 2.2.
Then go to “Destination Profile” and select your Native Monitor’s name (for example “Display Monitor”) which Gamma setting is 1.8.
Now you can export your file.
What you’ll get is a file (same size and settings) with no Gamma issue. Gamma won’t change even if you you check the QT pref Color Compatibility or not. Your File will look good as well on your Mac or your PC".
 
There's a fairly simple gamma fix/hack (no transcoding is necessary) that might work for you (requires QuickTime Pro, I believe):

Note, I'm writing this on a Windows machine, I can't remember if the menus and options are the same on a Mac...

1. Open the movie in QuickTime.
2. Go to 'Window' > 'Show Movie Properties'.
3. Select 'Video Track', then 'Visual Settings'.
4. Change the 'Transparency' mode to 'Blend'.
5. Set the 'Transparency Level' slider to 100%.
6. Change the 'Transparency' mode to 'Straight Alpha'.
7. Close the Properties window, then save the movie.

Hope that helps.
 
Steven Hilder said:
There's a fairly simple gamma fix/hack (no transcoding is necessary) that might work for you (requires QuickTime Pro, I believe)...
Click to expand...

QT's gamma has always been off for me on Windows XP for some reason. It doesn't happen on all files but you can bet on it for every Apple movie trailer. I always download them and play them with VLC which makes the blacks actually black. I don't have QT Pro so I guess there's no helping my problem.
 
In Windows, system gamma works at 2.2, same as normal video gamma.
In Mac, the system gamma is 1.8, then some apps design to process to "show" 1.8 gamma material at 2.2 gamma. That's the basic of Mac's gamma handling.
 
Thanks for all replies!

Brice Ansel said:
export your file (command E).
Then click Options… Check Settings and Size so that your file remains the same.
Click on Filter > Settings > ColorSync
Go to “Source Profile” and select your Calibrated Monitor’s name (for example “Display Monitor Calibrated”) which Gamma setting is 2.2.
Then go to “Destination Profile” and select your Native Monitor’s name (for example “Display Monitor”) which Gamma setting is 1.8.
Click to expand...

This one helped me to fix this particular problem without spending too much extra rendering time.

The result is now online: http://vimeo.com/5786314

:thumbup:
 
If you export using compressor for H.264 the Filters/Color tab, set output color space: Preserve source.
 
Looks great Martin! Now if we can just get rid of tearing and banding life would be splendid. :-)
 
Liam Hall said:
They are in September with the release of Snow Leopard and QuickTimeX. One more month of silly business and then all will be calm:)
Click to expand...

I know people keep saying this, but I still have yet to see any real confirmation. I've seen the WWDC seed of SL and QT. Gamma not fixed.
:emote_couch:
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I know people keep saying this, but I still have yet to see any real confirmation. I've seen the WWDC seed of SL and QT. Gamma not fixed.
:emote_couch:
Click to expand...
Snow Leopard will be using gamma of 2.2 as I understand it. Is that correct?

If gamma issues remain, I think this will be a big blow to the new Snow Leopard>FCP debut.
 
I know about the default gamma being changed to 2.2, but that still doesn't answer the question of whether or not the bugs with how OSX, FCS and QT handle gamma will be all fixed. What if we need a gamma of 2.4? Are we going to still be fighting with a shift to 2.2 all the time? Still better than a shift to 1.8, but I guess I'll believe it all when I actually see it. ....Perhaps it's because it's been an issue for so long that I've just accepted the fact that Apple will never fix it, even though they have said before that it would be fixed.
 
I hear you Jeff, but the problem with QuickTime has always been the legacy code. QuickTimeX is a complete re-write, the first in over ten years. I'm sure there will be issues, but lets be positive:)
 
I have heard from reputable sources that Apple is aware of the issues and they are working towards a more stable Quicktime. My only concern is how much crossover is there with consumer apps and devices?

Hopefully the new architecture for Quicktime offers professionals a feature rich and stable environment and doesn't get bogged down with features/bugs that are a result of making it an all-in one solution. I'd rather have two versions if it means keeping it stable.
 
Apple are also aware since ver 1.25 that the timecode windows are too small in FCP, white premultiplied alpha's don't work properly, that you cant rotate anything in the basic motion tab without major aliasing, that you can't always save your project to an external disk (including Xsan a product of theres), etc, etc, etc, but they are working on it!!:violin:

Cheers, Chris
 
Timecode window has been addressed in FCP7.

I understand your point though.
 
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