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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I am really really HAPPY with Scarlet-X!!!!!

I'm pretty happy with what Scarlet turned out to be. I'm disappointed I'll have to wait a year to get it rather than a few months but on the other hand, the camera they actually came out with will be a better long term investment that may well last me the rest of my career.
 
The more the days pass, the happier I am I went for the purchase, even though one side of me kept saying: "this is not what you wanted". I feel now it will open a new window of opportunities for me and make me embrace workflows that eventually will make a better professional out of me. It's true there is a lot of negativity going on these last two days. I am missing in the forum a thread for putting in constructive ideas as how to overcome certain issues when working in low budget productions, and documentary such as:

1) Crop factors, lenses that might overcome them.
2) Data wrangling with 2 64 Gb SSDs...minimum setup
3) Use of Video/Audio recorders like Sound Designs 240 Pix for certain situations, like quick HD delivery.
4) Focus: ways to make it work, now that 2/3rds is gone
 
I found I can use my C-mount 16mm glass for 2k with a $40 C to EOS adapter. I also have a decent set of Minolta MD Rokkors that will serve for 35mm with a similar low cost EOS adapter. Having lenses covered for most purposes makes the camera more affordable for now.

I'm warming up to the camera a bit more. Drooling at the possibility of shooting 5k Epic quality for stills. Probably just shoot 2k for most of the kind of paid video work I would typically do.
 
David Rasberry said:
I found I can use my C-mount 16mm glass for 2k with a $40 C to EOS adapter. I also have a decent set of Minolta MD Rokkors that will serve for 35mm with a similar low cost EOS adapter. Having lenses covered for most purposes makes the camera more affordable for now.

I'm warming up to the camera a bit more. Drooling at the possibility of shooting 5k Epic quality for stills. Probably just shoot 2k for most of the kind of paid video work I would typically do.
Click to expand...

Nice idea, I will look more into it.
 
I much prefer the list of specs for the Scarlet-X than the suggested specs for the 2/3" Scarlet Fixed or the Scarlet Interchangeable. I'd like to be able to do some slow motion (even 48fps would be good enough for my purposes the vast majority of the time) or HDRx at 4k, but other than that I can't think of very much I would change about the camera at this price point. Heck, maybe even that is too ambitious to expect here. I'm glad that there's been some suggestion that a firmware update might add HDRx to 4k (maybe 48fps w/o HDRx even?), but even if that never happens I am still very pleased with this camera.
 
I don't have the money to buy the camera (yet..) and I'm still happy with what the camera is. Bravo to RED for making their own choices and pushing the industry to new heights. ;)
 
Nick Wernham said:
I much prefer the list of specs for the Scarlet-X than the suggested specs for the 2/3" Scarlet Fixed or the Scarlet Interchangeable. I'd like to be able to do some slow motion (even 48fps would be good enough for my purposes the vast majority of the time) or HDRx at 4k, but other than that I can't think of very much I would change about the camera at this price point. Heck, maybe even that is too ambitious to expect here. I'm glad that there's been some suggestion that a firmware update might add HDRx to 4k (maybe 48fps w/o HDRx even?), but even if that never happens I am still very pleased with this camera.
Click to expand...


Nick I feel very much the same way and am really looking forward to what the upgraded capabilities will be. I’m blown away by what the specs for Scarlet came in as. So we have a couple on order to start with and then after initial testing we’ll probably get a few more for more elaborate set ups. We would never be able to do that with the Epic (financially). For our work too I don’t think I would have been able to pull the trigger on a 2/3” sensor at 3k kind of thing. Large sensor and decent measured resolution is really important for our work. We may have been forced reluctantly to buy a notional 2/3” 3k camera, but in all reality we probably would have tried to “make it work” ourselves but then find that the quality of the imagery would basically fall short. So in that sense had we bought into a 2/3” 3k camera systems then we would have probably wasted a lot of money in purchasing and developing systems for these cameras that just don’t quite cut it.

I think one of the principals with RED is to be the best, i.e. provide the most advanced capabilities, stay way out in front and have the highest quality of imagery that is possible at the highest measured resolution (virtually for any price). They throw the ball to where people are going to be… I think that the “original” Scarlet was a good idea at the time but I’m not 100% sure that 3k small sensor would have delivered the quality that RED wants to provide and the accessories and lenses would have been disproportionately expensive for a $6k 3k small sensor base model. So when RED says “professional” I read a bench mark standard for the quality of the imagery created (essentially under typical conditions, i.e. what types of glass that folks would be aiming to put with the camera).

I think it’s a question of quality, capability and value. I see (in the near future) a lot of innovative smaller companies developing very high quality but affordable systems, tools, Lenses, lens systems, various accessories and various types of rigs for the Scarlet-X. I think RED is leading the way with the price point/capability and many others will also seek to put very excellent professional tools into the hands of many to augment, enable or unlock unprecedented capabilities for Scarlet-X. The nice thing of course that in a large fraction of cases what is developed will also be useful for EPIC.

Cheers,

Eric
 
Jeremiah Kuehne said:
I don't have the money to buy the camera (yet..) and I'm still happy with what the camera is. Bravo to RED for making their own choices and pushing the industry to new heights. ;)
Click to expand...

Definitely as you say to new heights not to new “lows”…

I think also that RED would be afraid that the competition would indeed come out with something that most certainly would rival the measured resolution of a notional 3k (small sensor) Scarlet. At that point RED would have to provide some upgrade path to stay ahead that would be unworkable or that they would be forced to axe the Scarlet 3k small sensor line; which does not fit their whole philosophy and mission statement of obsolescence obsolete.

It may seem cruel to be forced to “euthanize” the original Scarlet concept, but I think in the long run the decision that RED made will prove to be far more beneficial in the long run. Three years down the road I think Scarlet-X represents a much better investment (an investment that can be protected) as opposed to a 3k small sensor camera which seems to my eye as being unsustainable both for the customer and for RED. So I think the Scarlet-X has a much greater and more promising future than the 3k small sensor idea.

Cheers,

Eric
 
The bottom line here is that a professional level camera with an accessible price point provides a viable business model for other outfits, groups and companies to also develop and provide high quality tools and capabilities for Scarlet at an accessible price points as well; and be able to afford to do that in the US/Europe. I.e. not have widgets outsourced to the Far East. So when Jim for example says the customer wins in the end, that is how I read this to mean that a quite a broad but unique ecosystem will spring up around the Scarlet-X and then by extension to EPIC and the future upgrade paths as well. Overall the Scarlet-X does indeed provide major opportunities (as mentioned before) but has the capability to stimulate a lot of growth in totally new segments and areas of application. When we look back on these events let’s say seven years from now, I think a lot of people will be able to point the finger at the release of Scarlet as the root that enabled a lot of new and very worthwhile and enduring things to happen.

There may be a lot of very talented shooters out there that right now are not able to charge for their services accordingly as they are essentially held back by the equipment they can afford to run with. It may be the case for folks with very good skills that they are able to charge more proportionately as a result and therefore build a better business that it able to grow in a more progressive fashion.

Time will tell…


Cheers,

Eric
 
You can say u don't understand but in the end you do understand why this big group of people is not happy..

years of hearing about a revolutionar great product with impressive specs and test results.. after the change to a modular kit and the price was allready twice as high but we got something back for this.. even better quality and more impressive specs... They wouldnt be suprised to see a big feature film made with this scarlet.

they just used this conceptcamera to create a hype and all these people can only look how you guys work with the epic models :)

We allready would be HAPPY !!!! <<< ------- with a very tine but of what you own yourself.... and now you talk about us like we are complaining too much ?
 
matthew hendriks said:
they just used this conceptcamera to create a hype...
Click to expand...

I call bullshit. Their only offenses here were; 1. underestimating the required effort to develop the fixed Scarlet in time and/or overestimating their ability to develop two revolutionary cameras at the same time, and 2. overestimating your patience.

I get your frustration I really do, but you need to refrain from these childish outbursts.

Edit: They may have also underestimated their own impact on the market.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for posting this thread Eric. It's for me at least a much needed real breath of fresh air.

I have been avoiding REDuser a bit since the release to be honest, time to get back to work for one!!
But also, because while I understand people are disappointed, after a significant spend, you naturally want to be positive about what you have just spent your money on and more importantly really start focusing on how to make the very most out of it. And it's been a bit dispiriting.

Whereras for mine, while it may be salt on the wounds for some, there is so much to celebrate...
Quite simply, I now have a camera coming that will give me a tool to shoot my Indie feature at an incredible level of quality I simply could not afford before. I intend to shoot over several months to work around my actors schedules who are all working only for deferrals. I used to dream of shooting my upcoming project on a RED ONE. And if I were spending an equivalent amount on rentals on a ONE, I would literally only get about 16 days of shooting from my closest rental house, maybe as high as twenty with a deal. With only a small amount of time for learning.

NOW I can learn and learn, test and test, experiment, be spontaneous, fuck up more and I will shoot closer to 48 days - with what promises to be quite an incredible camera. And one that will hold it's value and I can work off on other projects while helping pay for my kids education.

I really understand my particular needs are different from some others. But I really always thought the Scarlet was a camera that was being targeted at cinema. So the changes really did not surprise me at all. Contrarily, they were very exciting and making a B cam for Epic just seemed to make a lot of sense. This is actually what I predicted prior, though the 2/3rd arguments that ensued were very convincing. And if two thirds fixed was released, I would have loved it and used it, though it would not have been as ideal for my needs.

Those I really feel for are the ones who now can't reach the price point. But renting a Scarlet should be significantly cheaper than a ONE.
So it's price point, while not peanuts, I still think will prove revolutionary for Indie cinema, and it's been a long time coming.
Whereas to be honest, those who work in ENG have for a while have had a range of very solid options with which to pursue their work and passions.

I'm also extremely excited by the possibilities it brings to my workflow and VFX.

The other thing I'm excited about so far is that the customer service I have had, has been quite simply been better than I have ever experienced with any other company. This is just my experience. And my realities. Not blind fanboyism.

Thanks again Eric.

Best Wishes everyone

Lliam
 
Scott Crawley said:
I call bullshit. Their only offenses here were; 1. underestimating the required effort to develop the fixed Scarlet in time and/or overestimating their ability to develop two revolutionary cameras at the same time, and 2. overestimating your patience.

Edit: They may have also underestimated their own impact on the market.
Click to expand...

Personally when it comes to judging RED, I think the responses of Ketch bare more consideration by some people. He's stated how everyone at RED was very disappointed to see the two thirds go. This seems very logical to me. And I think this is something people are really missing when they feel personally affronted by RED's changes. Despite the fact changes were repeatedly promised - and it's RED's chief disclaimer.

I know having developed some projects over a long time, how much love goes in, and if you need to shelve that work in favour of other projects or worse seeing them derailed by forces beyond your control is never easy. And in RED's case, knowing your then going to have people screaming at you... while you try to do what you think is the best you can...

None of this changes that people will still be disappointed. But I think trying to see form the others perspective always leads to greater understanding and empathy, and ultimately a much more proactive and productive positioning on whatever the reality may be.

Personally I don't like arguing with reality. Because I always lose or make a fool of myself.
And worst of all, just prolong my own suffering. Life's too beautiful too precious, and too short for that.
And full of enough unavoidable suffering without creating anymore for myself if I can help it.

Best Wishes all

Lliam
 
Lliam Worthington said:
Thanks for posting this thread Eric. It's for me at least a much needed real breath of fresh air.

I have been avoiding REDuser a bit since the release to be honest, time to get back to work for one!!
But also, because while I understand people are disappointed, after a significant spend, you naturally want to be positive about what you have just spent your money on and more importantly really start focusing on how to make the very most out of it. And it's been a bit dispiriting.

Whereras for mine, while it may be salt on the wounds for some, there is so much to celebrate...
Quite simply, I now have a camera coming that will give me a tool to shoot my Indie feature at an incredible level of quality I simply could not afford before. I intend to shoot over several months to work around my actors schedules who are all working only for deferrals. I used to dream of shooting my upcoming project on a RED ONE. And if I were spending an equivalent amount on rentals on a ONE, I would literally only get about 16 days of shooting from my closest rental house, maybe as high as twenty with a deal. With only a small amount of time for learning.

NOW I can learn and learn, test and test, experiment, be spontaneous, fuck up more and I will shoot closer to 48 days - with what promises to be quite an incredible camera. And one that will hold it's value and I can work off on other projects while helping pay for my kids education.

I really understand my particular needs are different from some others. But I really always thought the Scarlet was a camera that was being targeted at cinema. So the changes really did not surprise me at all. Contrarily, they were very exciting and making a B cam for Epic just seemed to make a lot of sense. This is actually what I predicted prior, though the 2/3rd arguments that ensued were very convincing. And if two thirds fixed was released, I would have loved it and used it, though it would not have been as ideal for my needs.

Those I really feel for are the ones who now can't reach the price point. But renting a Scarlet should be significantly cheaper than a ONE.
So it's price point, while not peanuts, I still think will prove revolutionary for Indie cinema, and it's been a long time coming.
Whereas to be honest, those who work in ENG have for a while have had a range of very solid options with which to pursue their work and passions.

I'm also extremely excited by the possibilities it brings to my workflow and VFX.

The other thing I'm excited about so far is that the customer service I have had, has been quite simply been better than I have ever experienced with any other company. This is just my experience. And my realities. Not blind fanboyism.

Thanks again Eric.

Best Wishes everyone

Lliam
Click to expand...


Just noticed my Freudian slip…EPIC-X/EPIC-S/SCARLET-X…

I guess that shows some forward thinking…

I think you phrase that very well…

“dispiriting”

LLiam I really like the positive and balanced and feeling view point that you always seem to bring.

I like these adjectives that you use…


Celebrate, positive, excited.

And I think the key here is as you say that one gets to make all of the mistakes one can possibly make and thereby really learn by it…learn learn learn exactly as you say.

Rental would never be option for us right now as we have to spend many hours/months engineering and testing new complimentary systems with the Scarlet-X. The base brain for us being under 10K is a much much more affordable option than anything else in terms of what we need to know.

Today on the boards things seem much more REAL and constructive, purposeful and USEFULL!!

I don’t know what happened to that poor bloke (Kyle’s ).. thread that felt that RED was pissing on him…

It’s the old thing that the squeaky wheel gets the oil, and “good” news is not as interesting as sensationalized angst and conflict/big trouble…

This morning has turfed up some really helpful and positive threads and I am really happy that our EPIC “brother’s” are pitching in to help our Scarlet Bro’s get up to speed…greatly appreciated. So in the end I guess it shows the BEST of REDUSER… not the worst…

We all hear, feel, and empathize; we are not insensate lumps of wood.

Thanks!

Eric
 
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