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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

hvx200 vs red one

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A.R KAIN47

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ive heard quite a few different opinions on this subject but i just wanted to get a detailed description on which is better and why before i purchase!
 
If you want the best image quality and have the time & resources to post process your footage, by all means go RED.
You can go the Nikon lens route with RED if you need some affordable lens options. The HVX is realtively cheap.
The P2 format is pretty robust. The footage is much easier to deal with. The HVX does not match up to the RED in terms of image quality.
The decision on which system to go with should depend on your deliverables.
Much of what I do goes to the web or DVD. I have delivered only a few
"HD" productions. These were shows that play on 52" Plasma screens
at colleges that use MPEG2 servers and they look OK. If you are actually
wanting to deliver HD TV spots or Blu-Ray DVD's or anything that might end up in a theatre or transfered to film then RED would probably be your ticket.
You could always call a rental house and get a side by side demo and rent one system or the other until you really know what you need.
And remember - Scarlet is coming in 2009.
 
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thanks for that description red guy but the scarlet i heard doesnt have interchangeble lenses. i was really gonna kind of go gro the red anyway but i just relaly need to understand why the red was uch better coz i v heard opnion were peopple are saying the dynamic range on the red is about the same on the hvx and it also depend on what mediun you are trying to broadcast to like if im mainly delivering for music videos which are only gonna be on tv what would the red be able to do which will show up better than the hvx on a normal tv
 
weirdcrew said:
With all due respect but I think that if you need to ask this question your better off with the hvx200. RED One is a total different beast with emphasize on beast, if you think you need a hvx200.

Fredrik Callinggard
Click to expand...

Jeez, Fredrik, you don't even know this poster. I thought REDUser had
graduated beyond the levels of other boards.
 
A.R KAIN47 said:
thanks for that description red guy but the scarlet i heard doesnt have interchangeble lenses. i was really gonna kind of go gro the red anyway but i just relaly need to understand why the red was uch better coz i v heard opnion were peopple are saying the dynamic range on the red is about the same on the hvx and it also depend on what mediun you are trying to broadcast to like if im mainly delivering for music videos which are only gonna be on tv what would the red be able to do which will show up better than the hvx on a normal tv
Click to expand...

Look around the footage section. Many music vids shot with RED. But many music vids have been shot with the HVX as well. Again, much will depend on time budget and experience (yourself as well as the crew).
 
A.R KAIN47 said:
thanks for that description red guy but the scarlet i heard doesnt have interchangeble lenses.
Click to expand...
Neither does the HVX.

A.R KAIN47 said:
i v heard opnion were peopple are saying the dynamic range on the red is about the same on the hvx
Click to expand...
There's a lot of debate on how much DR RED has, but I don't think anyone who has actually used it would say that the HVX has anywhere near as much.
 
Red Guy said:
Jeez, Fredrik, you don't even know this poster. I thought REDUser had
graduated beyond the levels of other boards.
Click to expand...

I started the post with "all due respect" can't be more polite then that. I meant what I said. If your considering a Hvx200 you should really evaluate if you want to get a RED instead. You should really understand what it means and how different it is.

Edit: I think you're most probably better of with Scarlet in that case


Fredrik
 
Question is can you really afford a RED- easily 30K to 100K depending on how nice you want to go with the accessories and optics. 17.5K gets you a nice metal body that does nothin' without 'em. So if you are asking that general of a question I personally think it's excellent advice to get an HVX200 which is a solid HD camera but not really in the same ballpark in terms of achievable image quality and resolution. Then you can get experience shooting with it and determine for yourself if you're ready and able to move up to something like RED.

Or rent a RED package for a weekend and try it out. It's a *very* complex camera that requires a lot of time, effort and skill to get amazing imagery out of. Rewards patience. And there is the little issue of the waiting period to get one...

Noah
 
Good advice guys.
A.R, it's really apples and oranges. Very different tools and price points. A better question might be "HVX vs. EX-1" or "Red vs. Arri D-21"
You can do some terrific work with the HVX, and if 35mm DOF is of interest, then the Mini-35 from P+S is an excellent tool. I've gotten terrific results from mine, and I've decided to keep it (and my Pro-35) for the short term anyway, as each job dictates a different tool. A run and gun style might necessitate a small form factor like the HVX or EX-1, a tight turnaround HD or SD project might warrant an HDX-900 or SDX-900 with a Pro-35, or even the HVX with a Mini-35. A commercial or music video might also use the Red One, a broadcast camera with the adapters, a movie destined for filmout might be better served by the use of Digi-primes on a broadcast camera, or certainly the Red One.
The point is Red can fit into many styles of shooting, but sometimes it's better to cede absolute imaging power to the needs of the production. And at the price point of a functioning package (MANY thousands more than the $17,500 body price) you might be better off taking baby steps and getting an HVX and seeing how well owning a camera works for you.
Cheers,
Harry
 
I can see how this comparisson comes up.. Remember we are getting compared against F23's and Vipers and Genesis, cameras that cost an easy 10x more than the RED... so coming fresh off the boat, i could see how you could use the same baseline and start comparing the prosumer cameras vs. the RED.
 
Yes, odd comparison. It's like asking if you should buy the compact hybrid car or the full-size pickup truck.

I'm an HVX200 guy myself and the HVX is nowhere in the same league as RED in terms of image quality. Resolution aside, RED is still better and has more latitude. It's a different animal altogether though.

A.R. confuses me... He doesn't like Scarlet because it doesn't have interchangeable lenses, yet he's considering an HVX?

My advice to him... Rent each camera and decide for himself which on fits his needs.
 
Eh, it's kind of difficult to decide isn't it? For me, the RED is the ultimate camera. But it comes at a heavy price. Then you look over to the other side and see all of the other cameras, good but come with compromises. The EX3 is probably the best choice if you want to stay on that side, arguably the best image (thanks to the EX1), and it's got interchangeable lenses with relay lenses on the way from almost all the 35mm adapter makers. You get a great package for just a bit less after all is said and done.

But then the RED corner keeps catching your eye, 4K is 4K, anything else you'll have to settle for less features at 1080P with less variable frame rates and image control. It's tough to decide. Plus, how soon is it going to be when you're 1080P camera is outdated? Well, RED One hasn't been outdated, you can upgrade it. EPIC is a different camera, Scarlet's going to rock for the price. Options, options, and more options. Tough to decide.
 
you can´t compare it.
for me ( i own one) the hvx never was a real HD camera, a very good SD camera, but this really high definition thing - no, not really. it´s a great cam, but it has years on its shoulder now. the ex1 was already a big step ahead, but in comparison of all footage, there´s no comparison in full screen between hvx and red (and ex1, and hpx3000... so on so on)
i compared red to ex1 with filmadapter, and here´s the same - red is huge steps ahead in my opinion, because PL mount and the "native" 35mm DOF in combination with its huge sensor is unbeatable. a wide shot becomes a experience for your eyes with red ... there´s so much detail in it.
 
AR, if you can't figure-out to choose between 4000 lines and 560 lines, My serious and bitter advice to you, Think seriously to change your profession.
 
I have a great and large XL H1 and XH A1 kits, with 35 adapters etc. But after my first two days with RED, I can for sure say, I will never use them again.

RED is soo something else.
 
I would not be so quick to tell someone starting out to buy an HVX first.
If you are at the start of your learning curve and you have the resources, like most said much more resources than just the 17.5k, and you have teachers who are already in the business, good teachers, then Red would be
like starting at close to the top of the ever expanding technology ladder.

There is something to be said for trial by fire, if you don't have to make a livng with it and can afford to spend alot of time learning, get the Red, you won't be sorry. But if you think Red is like a point and shoot such as the HVX then you might want to reconsider.
 
My advice would be to spend a lot of time in the footage/stills forum. A picture, as the proverbial saying goes, is worth a thousand words.

I quickly searched for but could not find a very revealing comparison between an HVX and the RED that I recall from several months ago. I forgot who posted the grabs, but they were of a brass or gold award statuette in high key lighting, lots of specular stuff that really revealed the dynamic range of the two cameras and their ability to gracefully handle the transition to total white.

Forget the RED's clear superiority in resolution and color reproduction. It blew the HVX away in terms of aesthetically pleasing dynamic range. They were leagues apart in this regard. I don't care what conflicting data may say about the supposed (and relative) limitations of the RED's DR, seeing is believing. And it's obvious to me after looking at dozens and dozens of clips and stills over the past year+ that RED has more DR than any motion picture camera in any where near the same price range.

If you decide that you can afford a $26K camera package (conservative package using sill lenses) and have the patience, computer system, and leisure to deal with the more demanding workflow, then RED is the obvious choice. If you don't have the $, need quick turnaround or the portability/relative inconspicuousness of a small form factor, fixed lens camera, then the HVX is a better choice.
 
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