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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Hurt Locker producers are gunning for pirates

Some of these posts are scaring the hell out of me.

Using your concept, I am going out to steal a Porshe tonight. It's their own fault, they charge too much for the car. I would not need to steal the car if they would sell it for $300.00...

After all, think of how many more they would sell!

jesus..

Consumers don't get to "take" things they think are too expensive, they simply get to choose not to buy them.

There is no rational for breaking the law, or stealing.

I mean it, you guys are really scaring the hell out of me here. Your rationale is flat uot nuts.

Jay
 
It isn't. A thousand times over it's been explained why it isn't. Simply put, you aren't taking AWAY something (that's theft). You're INFRIGING on their rights to sell the material selectively and not allow you to just COPY it for free. It's like the difference between going into a book store and taking a book (theft) and copying it (infrigement).
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Some of these posts are scaring the hell out of me.

Using your concept, I am going out to steal a Porshe tonight. It's their own fault, they charge too much for the car. I would not need to steal the car if they would sell it for $300.00...

After all, think of how many more they would sell!

jesus..

Consumers don't get to "take" things they think are too expensive, they simply get to choose not to buy them.

There is no rational for breaking the law, or stealing.

I mean it, you guys are really scaring the hell out of me here. Your rationale is flat uot nuts.

Jay
Click to expand...
Please redefine "your" to whom you're speaking too, otherwise this post just becomes confusing.
 
Erik Franzén said:
It's like the difference between going into a book store and taking a book (theft) and copying it (infrigement).
Click to expand...

Semantics perhaps? What about the pirated DVD's everywhere. Producing counterfeit products is ok?

Anyway, I see where this is going so I'm out of this thread, Have fun.
 
Robert Frank said:
Semantics perhaps? What about the pirated DVD's everywhere. Producing counterfeit products is ok?

Anyway, I see where this is going so I'm out of this thread, Have fun.
Click to expand...
I never said it was "okay". Jesus, I am not defending piracy god damn it!
Just stating that calling one thing another isn't helpful. Or by that logic we might as well call theft murder since that sounds worse - right?
Anyhow, if this boils in to a "us" vs "them" I am out too. No fun in that. :frown2:
 
Erik Franzén said:
I never said it was "okay". Jesus, I am not defending piracy god damn it!
Just stating that calling one thing another isn't helpful. Or by that logic we might as well call theft murder since that sounds worse - right?
Anyhow, if this boils in to a "us" vs "them" I am out too. No fun in that. :frown2:
Click to expand...

Last post on this just for clarification. Nothing personal, Erik.

Like I said, it's semantics to worry about if illegal downloads are "just" copyright infringement.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Some of these posts are scaring the hell out of me.

Using your concept, I am going out to steal a Porshe tonight. It's their own fault, they charge too much for the car. I would not need to steal the car if they would sell it for $300.00...

After all, think of how many more they would sell!

jesus..

Consumers don't get to "take" things they think are too expensive, they simply get to choose not to buy them.

There is no rational for breaking the law, or stealing.

I mean it, you guys are really scaring the hell out of me here. Your rationale is flat uot nuts.

Jay
Click to expand...

For the record, I am in agreement with you, Jay.

But the Porsche example is an inappropriate analogy, you can't compare luxury high-end products with movies and music. The 'product' we're talking about is intangible property, it doesn't exist as a physical product. We're not talking about actual physical DVDs and CDs.

If computers didn't exist and the only access we had to movies and music was in actual hard copy DVD/CD form (as opposed to non-physical mpg/mp3 files), no one in their right mind would be walking into shops stealing DVDs and CDs off the shelves, at least not in the way it is being spread online. Just as we wouldn't be walking into luxury car showrooms and hotwiring Porches and stealing them.

But the logic has merit that if DVDs and CDs were cheaper (particuarly blurays), they'd be selling a lot more than they are now.
 
The law is the law

The law is the law

Erik Franzén said:
It isn't. A thousand times over it's been explained why it isn't. Simply put, you aren't taking AWAY something (that's theft). You're INFRIGING on their rights to sell the material selectively and not allow you to just COPY it for free. It's like the difference between going into a book store and taking a book (theft) and copying it (infrigement).
Click to expand...

Cut it how you want. You are breaking the law. You (not "you" per sea) are committing an act that causes financial, and most likely emotional harm to someone else.

My RED101 DVD is on a torrent, and if I ever find out who did it, I'll hunt them down, cut off their nuts, and choke them to death with them.

The profit from those DVDs helps pay for my kids school tuition, the ones who "steal" my property without paying for it are attacking and hurting my children.

Pure and simple.

Jay
 
Sean Lee said:
For the record, I am in agreement with you, Jay.


But the logic has merit that if DVDs and CDs were cheaper (particuarly blurays), they'd be selling a lot more than they are now.
Click to expand...

Sean this logic applies to everything, expect the dollar store.. And to be honest, they don't sell as much as you would think.

No matter how you cut it, the act of taking something that costs money and not paying for it is against the law. It is not our right to take things from companies (real, creative, or anything else) simply because we think they charge too much.

Blu-Ray is too expensive, so I do not own one. There are THOUSANDS like me out there. So we are sending the most effective message to the companies.. "If you want Blu-Ray to have better penetration, you will need to make it more affordable".

Jay
 
I also can see where this thread is going. And I don't want to get wrapped up in this thread.

Either the people in question (Whoever they are) Have a sense of ethics and principal or they don't.

I fear a discussion on this thread will make little difference to change minds.

so for me:

:closed2ur0:
 
you people have no clue what you are talking about. 50 cent disc...? that was the lamest excuse I ever heard for breaking the law. Downloading = NOT stealing???

do you have any idea how many films Avartar is funding indirectly? all of the first time directors out better be glad people still buy movies especially the big blockbusters because they pay for the whole party. 1 in 10 movies are a hit. that hit pays for the rest.

downloading kills the whole trickle down effect. Proof is the music business. especially on smaller markets like here in Europe. It wiped out the whole "working" class in music. the studio musicians, the speciality producer, all the major studios are more or less gone.

Music videos are dead here, almost only done on shoestring budget where people work for free. used to be 100.000usd- 200.000usd budget for music videos now you are lucky if you have 5000usd.

So its not a 50cent disc that cost 20bucks.... its a lot of peoples main income. And once you movie is done Tom L. and stolen on the internet or youre told that the distributor can only pay so little because of piracy (which even further inhibits your chance or recuperating your costs, and hopefully all your work.) I think you will find out just how little of the 20 bucks goes into your pocket.
 
Look the music industry is in record profit the movie industry is healthy.
Music videos cost 5k to make because people will make them for 5k.

A distributor will tell your they can't pay you X amount due t any reason they can find that keeps more money in the studio, absolutely nothing to do with piracy, and its been that way for 100 years.

Nothing has changed the scapegoat has just morphed.

If a movie hasn't made its budget back by the time it goes to release on DVD its never going to make it on DVD sales.

Jay i understand where your coming from at the same time, small producers and micro-studios are the only ones being hit by piracy, but you know what they are also the only ones embracing the change and adding alternate revenue streams.

Basically my point is this is not something new, this has been around and has been made into a story every few decades.


LP's re going to kill live performance.
Tapes are going to kill music industry.
CD's are going to kill live performance.
Downloads are going to kill the music industry.

Cinema is going to kill theater.
VHS is going to kill cinema.
DVD is going to kill cinema.
Downloading is going to kill cinema.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Sean this logic applies to everything, expect the dollar store.. And to be honest, they don't sell as much as you would think.

No matter how you cut it, the act of taking something that costs money and not paying for it is against the law. It is not our right to take things from companies (real, creative, or anything else) simply because we think they charge too much.
Click to expand...

Jay, I say again I am in agreement with you. I am not arguing that illegal downloading is ok. All I was saying was that if you were in court and posing your argument to a trial judge, you'd want to be looking for a less contrasting point even though the underlying point you made between Porches and movies is still the same.

The very people you're trying to convince would totally agree with your Porsche analogy too, they wouldn't walk into a car dealership and steal a car. What they don't get that is that your underlying point is the same. Their ethical conscience isn't going to kick in because the analogy is too far apart.
 
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Sean Lee said:
Jay, I say again I am in agreement with you. I am not arguing that illegal downloading is ok. All I was saying was that if you were in court and posing your argument to a trial judge, you'd want to be looking for a less contrasting point even though the underlying point you made between Porches and movies is still the same.

The very people you're trying to convince would totally agree with your Porsche analogy too, they wouldn't walk into a car dealership and steal a car. What they don't get that is that your underlying point is the same. Their ethical conscience isn't going to kick in because the analogy is too far apart.
Click to expand...

I know you are I are in agreement.. I felt you made a point worthy of debate.. So I responded.. That's all.

:)
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
I know you are I are in agreement.. I felt you made a point worthy of debate.. So I responded.. That's all.

:)
Click to expand...

gdgirlfight3ol.gif
<--- d'oh .. I guess that's what our exchange pretty much amounted to then! haha
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Some of these posts are scaring the hell out of me.

Using your concept, I am going out to steal a Porshe tonight. It's their own fault, they charge too much for the car. I would not need to steal the car if they would sell it for $300.00...

After all, think of how many more they would sell!

jesus..

Consumers don't get to "take" things they think are too expensive, they simply get to choose not to buy them.

There is no rational for breaking the law, or stealing.

I mean it, you guys are really scaring the hell out of me here. Your rationale is flat uot nuts.

Jay
Click to expand...
Nobody is rationalizing piracy here. We are talking about solutions to the problem.

What are you suggesting anyways? That the studios are actually going to stop piracy by suing all of the people illegally downloading movies?

The music industry all ready tried that and failed miserably. The music industry solved the problem by providing the illegal downloaders with a better solution than illegal downloading, and they ultimately did so without ridiculous DRM that even screws over people who legitimately purchase the product.

Hollywood are the ones trying to sell product to the consumers. It is Hollywood's job to give the consumer a product that he wants to buy.


I don't see how your Porsche analogy has anything to do with the discussion. You can't make a "copy" of a car.
 
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