HP Workstation OR other solution for Premiere CS6

[Gabor D.]

Hi All,

Previously I came here with a similar question, but that question is no more valid, so...

I would like to find an editing solution for myself. This year, or early next year I'd like to shoot a short film which I would like to edit myself. So I have plenty of time to save the money for it..
Probably shoot on Super 16mm or maybe digitally, BUT in any case I intend to edit only proxys, so I dont want to edit realtime 4k etc... I'm an Apple fan, really love my Macbook Pro (late 2008), but thinking about buying into an editing system and software I'm really unsure about Apple. As I intend to cut only proxys and then with the EDL the post house will scan the negatives at 2K and put it together... so Premiere CS6 seems to me a more professional software in terms of compatibility than Final Cut X... AVID is out of my budget, while I can get the Adobe Production Premium with a student discount, so really cheap....

IMPORTANT: this short film is just one project. And I dont want to buy something for only one short film.... So I want a usable system...

So... Please ADVISE ME... What to do etc...

Right now I have an old 15" Macbook Pro, late 2008, and an old PC, approximately 5 years old, but back then it was really powerful machine. It's an AMD 2x2,2Ghz, 4 GB ram, and unsure about the graphics card. It's house is big and massive, so I think it's upgradable....

So should I upgrade my old PC? Basically keep the house and get a new processor, graphics card, etc?

OR...

Buy a workstation like the HP Z220 series? What's the minimum recommendation for a graphics card? Quadro cards costs a fortune, could I get away with a cheaper card? Which one would you recommend, which would use the CUDA features of Premiere and Production Premium suite?

So as of now I intend to cut only proxy, but it can happen that on other project, maybe shot on a DSLR like D800, I have to cut and finish the whole stuff on this machine, so color grading etc... But still if I can, and if it makes editing so much faster, I'm ready to cut proxy files and then when I finsihed leave the machine to put together the full res HD stuff... I have time for that....

OR

Other solution would be an iMac, which is the easier to get, but.... in the longer term maybe an upgradeble PC seems better... I really dont know... please advise me...

 

[Gabor D.]

Nvidia Quadro 600 or GTX 580 cards are enough for me for the Mercury playback engine?

Do I need a powerful processor with several cores, or don't because CS6 uses GPU more?

What would you recommend for hard drives? Internal or external? How would it affect my editing I would edit from external WD Mybook drives with Firewire or esata?

Thanks

 

[Paul J Steinberg]

I'm not a Premiere power user but you don't need an extremely expensive machine to run Premiere.

GPU: Definitely get a CUDA card for the Mercury Playback Engine. This makes all kinds of stuff work in realtime. A GTX580 is a great fit and you can find them on ebay.
CPU: This will affect any rendering (final output) you're doing. The more cores and more speed the faster those tasks will complete.
RAID: An internal RAID is fine. You should have 4 SATA connectors on the motherboard. If the motherboard doesn't have a RAID controller you can stripe the drives in Windows. For more storage you can just pick up a little GSpeed RAID. eSATA is fast and stable enough to keep playback in real time.

 

[Gabor D.]

Thanks Paul!

And should I buy a new machine like HP z220 or 210, or maybe a Dell?, or I can just upgrade my current PC?

Could you tell me the pros/cons in a GTX 580 vs Quadro 600 comparison?

 

[Jack Cooper]

Gabor,

Do a search for Mr. Kilgore's postings...We really consider him the "authority" on Red machines. I think his insight, guidance, and knowledge is very valued by many redusers.

Paul is correct, some of our older workstations are from the "original" matrox axio days - they are running PP CS6 just fine. Red footage is a bit slow, but manageable. Any improvement in those dinosaur specs will add to your efficiency...Our new machine builds are in the $3500 range but we don't have experience with 16mm format you mention

 

[Tom Daigon]

Gabor, if you are a power user of Premiere and After Effects like I am and expect to edit a wide range of media (H.264 to Red to Epic) you need a very powerful machine. Especially for the Red products.

I configured a HP Z820 with the idea in mind that it could handle ANY media thrown at me by clients.

1. 2 2687W CPUs (fastest Xeons available)

2. 4 hard drives (Sytem/Apps - Caches - Exports - Clone of primary drive as back up)

3. 64 GB ram

4. Nvidia PNY GTX 570

5.Dulce DQg2 raid array to insure FAST IO of media.

The Adobe Mercury engine thrives off this setup.

 

[Gabor D.]

Well, actually I don't really want a "RED machine"

I'm kinda old school in terms of editing, because I don't want to edit 4K, 5K or other similar full res stuff. Because as I see it, it's a constant on going bidding war all the time.... You buy an extremely expensie machine to handle everything in native resoulion, then after two years you need to start a new system from scratch.... So I still a firm believer in SD editing.... It's fine for me

In the near future aside from the SD editing of film stuff, I can imagine HD footage from DSLRs like D800 or 5Ds. If I have to edit 5K stuff from RED, I'm going to edit proxies...

So an SD/HD machine is fine for me.... If I'm not mistaken the color correction phase requires a more powerful machine, am I right?

As far as I know, the industry uses mainly proxies too... So if it's good for them, then it's good for me too

So based on these... what minimal but usable configuration could you advise me? In terms of CPU, GPU and HDDs....



Do I make a mistake if I don't buy a new workstation from HP (z210 or z220) or Dell (1650), but rebuild my old, but once very powerful, PC? I mean change the AMD 2x2,2Ghz processor for a new Intel Xeon (HOW MANY CORES DO I NEED?), and change the GPU for a GTX580 or Quadro 600, plus memory (12 or 16GB RAM is enough for my needs?), plus new intenral HDDs.....

My reason for my old PC is that I have a very good Samsung LCD monitor plus I have a Gigabyte Aurora 3D house for the machine..... Can I use these? Is this house good for future use?

Gigabyte Aurora 3D house
http://prohardver.hu/dl/cnt/2005-09/838/aurora.jpg

 

[Gabor D.]

Sorry, but as you see I'm not really a computer geek, so any advice on what should I buy, or use is welcomed...

 

[noah newtown]

If you like macs you can go with a 2.hand macpro 2008 with internal raid and a new gtx570 for SD/HD editing
and buy a redrocket for raw later if needed

 

[Gabor D.]

Well, I like macs, but.... won't buy second hand and old stuff.... If I have old stuff I try to use it, but won't spend my money something old in computing...

 

[Dustin Dooley]

To give you some perspective, one of my backup machines is a Dell XPS from 2008 with a quad core processor, 8 gigs of RAM, and a GTX 570 which will allow me to edit HD footage without a problem as well as 4K footage at 1/4 resolution. If you are only going to be cutting and disolving you could really get a very inexpensive computer to edit. I would at least recomend getting a higher end Nvidia GTX GPU in order to take advantage of the murcury playback engine. Of course if you plan on doing a lot of VFX you will need a higher end machine to be able to preview before rendering. Also if you do not opt for a higher end machine your rendering times can be an eternity.

Now for the recomendation, I would avoid Dell as they are very expensive vs the performance you get. I've had good luck with Main Gear machines and you won't pay as much as a Dell for esentialy the same exact machine. The most affordable way to buy a higher end computer is to hire someone who knows how to build a solid machine.

What this really comes down to is time. If you don't mind waiting two days to render out your final product then pretty much any modern day PC with an i5 processor or better is going to handle editing SD and HD footage. If you don't want to have your machine basically unusable for a day or so for rendering the proxys or final output then spring for the higher end. I for one hate waiting.

;DFDooley

 

[Paul J Steinberg]

For processors I usually buy the fastest I can afford. They help with everything on the machine. With that said, similar to Dustin, my previous machine was a quad-core i7 with 16GB of RAM and a GTX 570. It ran CS6 just fine (also had 4-drive RAID and RR). If you can afford a new Xeon machine I'd do it but you're asking about minimal cost to run CS6.

HP Z820 is nice if it is in your budget but any local computer shop can put an i7 machine together for you for less than HP or Dell.

If you're looking to run Resolve you'll need a much faster machine but if you're cutting HD/SD proxies you'll be fine with a cheaper box.

 

[Tom Daigon]

Any computer shop may not configure the computer it makes in a way to maximize its potential running CS6 Call Eric at ADK. He knows CS6 and makes computers that fit your needs and budget.
http://www.adkvideoediting.com/adobe.asp

 

[Gabor D.]

Thanks, but I live in Europe, so... I must find something here...

 

[Gabor D.]

I either go
1, with HP workstation
2, with DELL workstation
3, rebuild my current old PC

I think I stick to my old PC rebuild version. So please help me in that.. My QUESTIONS:

IMPORTANT: I will discuss the topic with the guy who will build it, but I'd like some general guidelines prior to that...

So...
1, Which Intel processor should I get? I try to figure out based on there prices which is the newer and better but it's hard... Should I get i5, i7 or just stick with XEON? What's the advantage of Xeon? Should I go for higher Ghz or more cores?

2, What type of RAM should I buy? DDR3 and ... ? Because there's a huge difference in price, but do I need the more expensive stuff from RAM? 8-12-16 GB RAM is enough for my needs? I know the more ram you have the better, but which is the minimal (not the Adobe tech spec minimal, but which is..) usable RAM size I should go for?

3, I have this case: http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/gigabyte_3d_aurora_case/1
Is it good for rebuild as a video editing machine's case?

4, Right now I have 3 HDDs in my PC: 1, WD Raptor 10000rpm, 74Gb for the system and programs, 2-3. These are 500Gbyte 7200rpm WDs.
What should I change? Should I change the system HDD to a small SSD? What should I do with the 500Gb HDDs? Change them for a bigger one (how big?), or keep them and get a bigger one also, maybe a 1TB? Should I go for intenral storage or external, or both? Store the raw footage on an external drive and all the edit related files on the internal? Should I use the internal drives as individual drives or as RAID 0 or RAID 1?

5, Quadro 600 vs GTX 580 (or 570 or etc... these numbers doesn't make any sense for me so please advise... )

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

1. i7 CPU for sure. You can go with Xeon, but I only recommend doing so if you're willing to spend the money on a dual CPU system. Without the dual CPU configuration, you don't gain many advantages and actually sacrifice memory bandwidth. Dual Xeon E5 is the best configuration at the moment, also the most expensive. The E5-2687W CPUs are tops. If you want to stick to a 135W per CPU profile, you can use the E5-2690 CPUs as they're close in performance to 2687W's, actually are 100MHz faster at idle, but they're more expensive. Several i7 desktop CPU options can be had for relatively little money and there are a lot of other options you get there such as overclocking, some things to consider that are not available with Xeon configurations.

2. You should use the appropriate type of RAM for the system... All current systems use DDR3, but you need to have the proper RAM rated for the right speed. Or rated for a higher speed you would like to target if overclocking.

3. That case is fine, provided the new motherboard you choose will fit. The case has 7 slots and fits standard ATX form factor and smaller boards. If you pick a dual Xeon arrangement, you'll need a new case. You will definitely need a new power supply for the new build. First of all to make sure it meets the power requirements of your new build, but also because recycling a PSU is usually asking for trouble in my experience.

4. Those are pretty small by todays standards. Using an SSD as your primary operating system and applications drive does work well and I recommend. As for other hard drives, I would set up 4 x 2TB 7200rpm HDDs in a RAID-0 for performance workspace. Invest in a good backup system and strategy.

5. Go with the GTX580 or a GTX680. There is also the GTX690. If you go with a Quadro, you should get the K5000, but it's about $2400, so quite a bit more than the GeForce cards. However, it's more stable and provides some operational tweaks that may be appealing to you. It's a bit slower, but runs smoother, has fewer precision errors, superior OpenGL performance among various other features. I personally wouldn't spend the money on previous generation Quadro cards at this point. If you want previous generation hardware, the GTX580 is the way to go. GTX690 is also an option, it's two GTX680's on a single card. They're clocked slightly slower than standard 680's, but if you need/want dual GPUs, this is an intriguing option.

The Quadro 600 offers no real performance features or GPU acceleration ability. It's a very basic, entry-levl card.

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

1. i7 CPU for sure. You can go with Xeon, but I only recommend doing so if you're willing to spend the money on a dual CPU system. Without the dual CPU configuration, you don't gain many advantages and actually sacrifice memory bandwidth. Dual Xeon E5 is the best configuration at the moment, also the most expensive. The E5-2687W CPUs are tops. If you want to stick to a 135W per CPU profile, you can use the E5-2690 CPUs as they're close in performance to 2687W's, actually are 100MHz faster at idle, but they're more expensive. Several i7 desktop CPU options can be had for relatively little money and there are a lot of other options you get there such as overclocking, some things to consider that are not available with Xeon configurations.

2. You should use the appropriate type of RAM for the system... All current systems use DDR3, but you need to have the proper RAM rated for the right speed. Or rated for a higher speed you would like to target if overclocking.

3. That case is fine, provided the new motherboard you choose will fit. The case has 7 slots and fits standard ATX form factor and smaller boards. If you pick a dual Xeon arrangement, you'll need a new case. You will definitely need a new power supply for the new build. First of all to make sure it meets the power requirements of your new build, but also because recycling a PSU is usually asking for trouble in my experience.

4. Those are pretty small by todays standards. Using an SSD as your primary operating system and applications drive does work well and I recommend. As for other hard drives, I would set up 4 x 2TB 7200rpm HDDs in a RAID-0 for performance workspace. Invest in a good backup system and strategy.

5. Go with the GTX580 or a GTX680. There is also the GTX690. If you go with a Quadro, you should get the K5000, but it's about $2400, so quite a bit more than the GeForce cards. However, it's more stable and provides some operational tweaks that may be appealing to you. It's a bit slower, but runs smoother, has fewer precision errors, superior OpenGL performance among various other features. I personally wouldn't spend the money on previous generation Quadro cards at this point. If you want previous generation hardware, the GTX580 is the way to go. GTX690 is also an option, it's two GTX680's on a single card. They're clocked slightly slower than standard 680's, but if you need/want dual GPUs, this is an intriguing option.

The Quadro 600 offers no real performance features or GPU acceleration ability. It's a very basic, entry-levl card.

Jeff, it seems every time I read one of your posts I have a niggling question answered! Thanks!

I was debating the CPU for a long time as I'm putting together a system - any thoughts on i7-3930k vs i7-3960X?
(I'll be using 32gb Ram & the GTX690)

 

[Gabor D.]

Jeff,

Thanks!!!!!

Today I talked to the guy I hoped will build the machine, but.... it turned out he's not the best person for this... so, probably I will stick to machines prebuilt.... Unfortunately in my country there's no too many options... HP sells a few workstations, for DELL I was unable to find any appropriate dealers, and there's Alienware which is basically for gaming, not video editing...

HP z420 and z620 are so expensive but as it turns out I don't have much options...

 

[Gabor D.]

And there's also Lenovo Thinkstations....

BTW what about Lenovo workstations for Premiere CS6? Price, quality, reliability?

 

[Tom Daigon]

Jeff,
HP z420 and z620 are so expensive but as it turns out I don't have much options...

Gabor, you can get a better price then whats listed on the website. Especially if you buy near the end of the month. I got about 30% off when I ordered from the US website. Bargain with them.