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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

HP 820 Tower - RED EDITION

Where are my amazing friends at Apple with a new Mac Pro tower at a time like this. LOL...
 
Well. I got an email from apple letting me know that they release their most powerful iMac ever :P
 
So I hope I'm not re-asking a question posed in one of the 50 pages (!!) on this thread... but I've already got a couple Z820's, can I order the slick RED integrated hardware separately?
 
Steve Sanacore said:
What amazes me is that we are stuck with only two poor options. What happened to a version of Unix like Linix? Why can't someone come out with a new OS that is built just for high end graphics the way SGI or SUN used to do? I would go with PC hardware but I don't want to deal with Microsoft and Windows ever again. I built PC's for gaming while my kids were growing up and they are real performers but very troublesome because of Windows - albeit that was with XP. Maybe the newer versions are more stable? Apple really did so much for the graphics, photography and movie world - it's a shame that they put it on the back burner now.
Click to expand...
Windows has been very stable since the later versions of XP... I've got machines I've not rebooted in years (something the Linux gang used to crow about). The problem with a viable competitor to Windows and OSX is that Operating Systems are REALLY complicated beasts, just look at the gyrations Android is going through as it matures (and that's just a phone OS). There are some pretty huge barriers to entry for any manufacturer ... to the point that only a giant corporation (or a country - like China) could contemplate a serious foray. Linux has continuously improved but they've still not gotten it to the point that it's easy enough for a non-techie to use that it provides a compelling user experience (though some techies will tell you different... they're lying ;-)) Anyway... these days if you buy (don't build) a PC from a reputable vendor it will be no more troublesome than a MAC, and the top tier PC vendors have comparable reliability to Apple. Just keep this in mind... PC fanatics will tell you that PC's are cheaper than Mac's... but if you get a GOOD PC from a good vendor it will not be much cheaper (if at all). If you want reliable high performance it will cost you regardless the Operating System. I paid $10k for my last (non-Red version sadly) Z820... the HP laptop I'm typing on ran $6k (Apple doesn't make anything comparable to either of these machines).
 
Jarred Land said:
Yes ketch.. just for the heavy lifting. I have started to see DIT's move over to Windows machines.. the best DITs. It is really transparent when you are in the actual programs.. you would never know what os you are in, the windows machine is just way faster. You can hide it under the desk if you don't want anyone to know :)
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Jarred, this is a very intelligent comment. Personally I feel this widely accepted view that PC's are garbage compared to Mac's is mostly made by the uninformed. Mac's are great for most people, but for power users who want insanely powerful hardware and more options to upgrade internal components, you simply get way more processing power per dollar. From my experience, if you buy a well built PC from a company like HP, and don't use it to go to porn sites and other virus infested areas of the web, your PC will run fine and serve you well :)
 
Or you have a degree in Computer Science and build your own machines to fit your needs and save tons of money and build machines that are easier to support and work with.

I have a degree in CS and would at this time rarely consider buying a pre-built machine.

OSX is dying, frankly it is. Windows is taking back over, what would change the market is if Adobe started supporting Linux but regardless OSX controls you rather than you being in control.
 
Darren Orange said:
Or you have a degree in Computer Science and build your own machines to fit your needs and save tons of money and build machines that are easier to support and work with.

I have a degree in CS and would at this time rarely consider buying a pre-built machine.

OSX is dying, frankly it is. Windows is taking back over, what would change the market is if Adobe started supporting Linux but regardless OSX controls you rather than you being in control.
Click to expand...

I have been on windows machines strictly now for the last 6 or so months and it sure has been nice to be able to upgrade graphics cards from 680 to 690 to Titan to ATI 7790 and swap out CPU's along the way.

The new Xeon's in the new Mac towers just happen to be the same cpu socket as what most window workstations have already been using for the last year or so, so when the cpu's hit the market ( next week ) PC's will be able to just upgrade processors with a new MB firmware and share the 12 core love. That Xeon also supports dual cpu configurations, so dual PC motherboards will be able to theoretically have twice the horsepower... and thats just the first chip in the new Xeon family.

As much as laptops and tablets are getting faster and better.. heavy lifting is not going to go away. Not just for us... Ultra high definition cameras are everywhere, at one point everyone needs to render, and even still cameras as they pass the 50 megapixel mark need some muscle to keep you efficient.
 
Have to agree as well. It's pretty much always been this way. If you want the most power and flexibility, you have to go Windows. The new Xeon Ivy Bridge EP CPUs will drop-in to all C600 series based Xeon workstations with LGA-2011 sockets. That means the HP Z820 and similar. There will be a necessary BIOS upgrade for many systems, but the hardware is not changing and most workstation vendors and motherboard makers will have the new firmware ready to go soon, if not already.

That said, I still think Windows is a pile of crap. But we use it and do so happily because there isn't anything else we can do. IMO, Apple had the opportunity to go for the throat here and crush Windows and they elected not to. Mac OS has the largest market share ever and it's still growing even with the slide of the Pro offerings. At times I wish Apple would stick to making laptops, tablets and phones and license out OSX so it can be installed on any system. OTOH, I can only dream of what Microsoft would be capable of in the hands of a truly competent CEO. The corporate world considers Windows 8 to be Vista 2.0 and I pretty much agree. I'm hoping Microsoft's plan to push Blue ahead of schedule works out for them.

@Darren, I have a CS degree (not sure if it means anything anymore though) as well and I mostly agree. Not including Macs and laptops, the only pre-built system purchase I've made in the past two years is a couple Z820 workstations. I recently sold one and still have the other as my primary workstation. It's OK, but I always felt that HP rushed these to market. Several design aspects I would have done differently. Going the route of building a system yourself can save a bit of money, but I've found that only applies to those who's time isn't that valuable. The real reason to do our own builds is complete control. Unfortunately, that's hard to come by these days when most motherboard manufacturers rarely stray from reference designs and no one is really willing to break the mold in terms of design, form factors, etc.. Someone really needs to shake up the PC industry. It needs a swift kick in the ass. I guess I just get frustrated looking at motherboard after motherboard from ASUS, Gigabyte, SuperMicro, etc.. and they're all pretty much the same thing: a slightly modified take on what Intel shipped out as reference. The industry needs some innovation.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
IMO, Apple had the opportunity to go for the throat here and crush Windows and they elected not to. Mac OS has the largest market share ever and it's still growing even with the slide of the Pro offerings.
Click to expand...

Jeff, interested in your take on the "opportunity to crush Windows", b/c AFAIK Windows has still over 91% market share and Mac OS has a bit over 6.5%...

were you speaking in regards to just the Film / TV / AV industry ?

- M
 
Mike Nagel said:
Jeff, interested in your take on the "opportunity to crush Windows", b/c AFAIK Windows has still over 91% market share and Mac OS has a bit over 6.5%...

were you speaking in regards to just the Film / TV / AV industry ?

- M
Click to expand...


Im betting its Film/Broadcast.
 
There are advantages to either, Ketch. If you go to the PC side I recommend either the HP Z820 or the Dell T7600 dual Xeon. The RED Edition of the 820 doesn't offer anything in terms of value, other than the convenience of the internal mag readers. Which are really just drive trays with openings cut in them for the mag readers. The Dell tower can do better with accommodating multiple GPUs -- something the HP system struggles with. Since the Z820 came along 2 years ago, I've bought two of them and have since sold one. I still have the one with dual 8 core CPUs, 128GB RAM and I'm running a "SuperClocked" GTX Titan GPU in it. It works well, but I'm going to be pulling the Titan in favor of a Titan Z here shortly to see if I can improve GPU performance with Resolve. This is my primary Resolve system. Still hoping I'll get a Rocket-X card soon too.
 
NeoMP if you need portability AND power. Bomber PC tower if its going to live in a fixed location and host multiple shredder GPUs. Neil has a SuperMicro with 4 AMD W9100s that will eat NeoMPs for breakfast, but hauling it around would get old fast. I stick with Mac as I have burned far too many hours chasing gremlins on Wintel boxes, but that's really more of a sanity maintenance issue ;-)

Cheers - #19
 
I feel your pain, buddy. My new custom rig should ship today or tomorrow. Instead of the Z820, I went with a ProMax build. What I like about their machine is 7 PCI slots with 4 double wide so I should finally be able to ditch my expansion chassis. Also, it has 8 internal drive bays! + 4 x 2.5" bays for SSDs (boot drives).

My config is:
16 core 3.4 GHz
128 GB RAM (1866 MHz)
GTX 780 GPUs (x2)
8 x 2TB HDD, RAID 5 internal storage
the internal RAID will yield around 900 MBs I/O, plenty fast for projects. I have 2 more 8bay SAS RAID boxes that yield the same speeds and will provide additional storage / BU.

I installed Windows on my old MP to start getting used to it and I don't mind the GUI at all. Appz feel nearly identical and I'll be working totally in Premier , RC-X & Resolve.

The two question marks in my mind are about networking my MacBookPro and outputting ProRes. I have found a ProRes plugin for Premier, just a drag that it's not more seamless.

CB
 
the new Mac Pro's are great for portability but when you need real power you can't beat a machine that has 2 x CPU's.
Still shake my head at Apple for not offering a dual CPU option, heck they should have make a bigger trash can that can house 4 CPU's and 4 GPU's

Going Windows, Linux or Hackintosh seems the only real way to get the power you need in a system that is cheaper than a new mac Pro.
You have the choice of GPU's and CPU's and can house hard drives and interface with RAID's much faster than ThunderBolt.
 
I really hope the iCans get dual CPUs at some point. My 2012MP will last another couple years, but I fear what I'll have to go with after that.

A "twin turbine" MacPro might actually be pretty great!
 
2012 Mac Pro with 12 cores and Titan beats the crap out of any trashcan config using any software- and later you can add even better GPU for $1000.

Pro testing confirms this. Most internet tests compare the original GPU that comes with the older Mac with the new one, or compare an iMac. Not really relevant, and it seems to have misled enough people for Apple to have sold more than 0 of these new "wonders".

New Mac Pro = laughable waste of money compared to buying a used 12 core on ebay and adding a great GPU card + PSU. Might cost you 1/2 the money total, will be faster right away, AND will be upgradeable. So much work is now done by the GPU - even Red debayer - that being able to upgrade that is now very, very (most) important for performance.

Even if you add a Cubix-style box - still cheaper, and of course now much, much faster. (BTW - no you can't really connect a GPU card via Thunderbolt, it's not a fast enough connection for most video work)

Apple might fool the guys who used to sit at the back of the math class and "love the innovative design" but I'm interested in actual performance stats with the tools I use most often vs cost, and Apple's new products are an insult to my intelligence, whereas previously the Mac Pros, compared to alternatives performing as well as and reliably, were actually good value.

I have no respect for companies who bring in new products worse than old ones and at higher prices.

Please Apple, gain some understanding of how actual pros work (we don't want "high design and simplicity" we want UTILITY), then maybe I'll but more boxes from you in the future.
 
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