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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How will workflow go from Red to Avid HD?

T

TellStories

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Will this talk Avid? How will the workflow go? Will it go to some sort of HD intermediate formate to be used with Avid? I'm ready to sell the farm here, I just only edit in Avid.

Rob
dir. Squeeze (Miramax)
dir. Body Count (Polygram)
dir. Turntable (Vivendi Visual Ent.)
 
After processing the Raw footage, you will be able to export using whatever codec you have installed on your computer.

So yes, you can use Avids HD codec.
 
Editing with NLE's

Editing with NLE's

Until such time as NLE systems are able to read REDCODE directly (and we do understand that this is the ideal scenario, but we also understand history tells us that there has always been a lag between developing a new codec and getting the NLE industry to adopt it) re-coding is the best path to NLE compatibility.

i.e REDCINE reads the REDCODE codec footage, and re-encodes it to a codec format that your NLE does support. That could be M-JPEG (pretty much universal support) DVCPRO HD or uncompressed HD (wide spread support) or DPX / TIFF or other more specialized codecs. As long as the codec is available to be used (not restricted by a license) then REDCINE is in position to exploit that codec.
 
What do yo mean by processing the footage? Is that what the RedCine does or is that simply a telecine product? When downloading the Raid into the NLE is that the processing?

My friend Bill Warner (Avid Inventor) and I are sitting here dying to know.

Rob
 
name droper. (kidding)
-A
 
Stuart,
Will Redcine be able to output high bandwidth DNxHD files as though they were output from an Avid Adrenline HD box, and then have these DNxHD files edited natively in one of Avid's NLEs?

I'm hoping Bill made such a 'open' system that we can.

DF
 
Redcine

Redcine

I need to add this comment - I was answering Tell Stories question .. posts got out of sync

" What do yo mean by processing the footage? Is that what the RedCine does or is that simply a telecine product? When downloading the Raid into the NLE is that the processing?"

Yes,

Go here ... http://red.com/workflow.htm

Any questions, post here...
 
Thanks Stuart, I presume you mean 10bit 4:2:2 option.

I like the Avid system and its layout & stability blah blah.

I see DNxHN goes up to 10bit 250Mb/sec but that is probably a little less quality (sorry Bill) than RedCode's maximum output quality.
Thou I expect I can ‘work’ Avid DNxHD files quite a bit without them breaking up and would only have to do one extra codec migration (Redcode to DNxHD) at the onset.
Can I conform my Redcode master files to my Avid offline DNxHD files?
What Avid effects i.e dissolves, cc, etc will be carried over when I do conform?
DF
 
Redcine

Redcine

David. To clarify, REDCINE isn't a conform tool. Its a pre-editorial and pre-conform tool.

You process video from RAW to RGB space performing the equivalent of a one-light color correction. You may then scale and encode the files to whatever codec is available to you for off-line use. (I can't comment about any specific NLE's codec availability outside this general comment)

Once the off-line is performed, a PULL LIST is generated, which REDCINE uses to re-scale and re-export the footage in the required finishing quality. That might be 10 bit 4:2:2 uncompressed or 4K DPX for a DI to 35mm film for example.
 
As an err.. 'avid' user of the Avid editing software anything Bill wants to do to enable Red compatibility would be welcome by me.

Maybe call some friends work out a partnership... I'm sure RED would be more than happy to work with NLE providers to even further extend interoperability.

In the mean time it'll be offline 720p DVCPRO HD in Avid with an online conform in combustion or smoke for me.
 
Stuart English said:
Until such time as NLE systems are able to read REDCODE directly (and we do understand that this is the ideal scenario, but we also understand history tells us that there has always been a lag between developing a new codec and getting the NLE industry to adopt it) re-coding is the best path to NLE compatibility.

i.e REDCINE reads the REDCODE codec footage, and re-encodes it to a codec format that your NLE does support. That could be M-JPEG (pretty much universal support) DVCPRO HD or uncompressed HD (wide spread support) or DPX / TIFF or other more specialized codecs. As long as the codec is available to be used (not restricted by a license) then REDCINE is in position to exploit that codec.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify a bit. If your NLE can load QuickTime files it should be able to take in REDCODE natively. Obviously this will not be a first class integration so might not be real time and such, but it should work. Some NLE's (like Avid) will want to transcode if you do this though.

Secondly REDCINE will output to most QuickTime codecs besides the support for image sequences.
 
Rob Lohman said:
Just to clarify a bit. If your NLE can load QuickTime files it should be able to take in REDCODE natively. Obviously this will not be a first class integration so might not be real time and such, but it should work. Some NLE's (like Avid) will want to transcode if you do this though.

Secondly REDCINE will output to most QuickTime codecs besides the support for image sequences.
Click to expand...


The ideal solution for off line with Avid Media Composer would be to have direct generation of DNxHD from REDCINE. Hopefully sometime soon Avid and RED can collaborate on that, although I realize the RED team may be too busy for that right now. HDxHD is open source (or community source) and I believe (perhaps incorrectly) that the license is not restrictive.

For online (Avid DS Nitris) DPX files will work fine.
 
Rob Lohman said:
Just to clarify a bit. If your NLE can load QuickTime files it should be able to take in REDCODE natively. Obviously this will not be a first class integration so might not be real time and such, but it should work. Some NLE's (like Avid) will want to transcode if you do this though.

Secondly REDCINE will output to most QuickTime codecs besides the support for image sequences.
Click to expand...

Rob, will RedCode be available using the DirectShow interface on Windows? Whether in QT or DS, will it be a lossless codec?

Joe C.
 
Sean said:
What's the downside to this transcoding step in Avid? Another compression step and resultant quality loss?
Click to expand...

Time, space and probably quality indeed. Obviously we are looking at a lot of options, but there's only so much we can do in a day ;)

More workflow updates during NAB!
 
Mike Devlin said:
...although I realize the RED team may be too busy for that right now. HDxHD is open source (or community source) and I believe (perhaps incorrectly) that the license is not restrictive.

For online (Avid DS Nitris) DPX files will work fine.
Click to expand...

Hi Mike...

The license is very restrictive. Take a look at it yourself... it's publicly available on the Avid website. A corporate entity that wants to use the DNxHD codec must work with Avid corporate to "do a deal." The public license only covers individual users.

Lucas
------
Reader of the Fine Print
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
Los Angeles
 
I believe the key here is determining what resolution people want to edit at, and that's been discussed in other forums. It's like having your film transferred to whatever tape format to ingest with burn ins -DVCam, Digi Beta, Beta SP or HDCam...from there you determine what is acceptable to you as a resolution format to work in. I would think something as simple as Xpress Pro would be sufficient to work in -at least to edit and maintain the info you need for your online.

The import function with Avid seems to be the only real way at this point to bring media into the system. We've abandoned the physical asset of a tape in this workflow...unless of course you can afford to archive to HD SR or D5.

From my POV, I have 3 Avid's with the highest level being MC Adrenaline with the HD board. So it has an output limitation...sure it can handle HD resolution but not an on line level. So my question is, we use either FCP or Avid to lock picture, then where will we go, and what will be the most cost effective way to do color timing? I see Luki is repping Scratch, so perhaps there is one answer. Perhaps with most FCP users there may be word about Final Touch being integrated...hard to say but what I do know is that I will need a new system that is both affordable and can handle at the very least 2K output. So far an FCP system with Aja or Blackmagic appears to be the answer. Anyone else?
 
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