How to rec sound at the shooting area on movie shooting?

[Alexey Datsenko]

Tell me please How to rec sound at shooting area on movie shooting?
Some people say rec on camera some on recorder.
For example for this recorder portable
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/600761-REG/Zoom_H4N_H4n_Handy_Mobile_4_Track.html

It is 3 microphone enter so 3 microphone in wav format is enough to rec the scene with 2-3 people. So you just need to care about correct location of these microphones, not far from actors, without extrinsic noise and etc, but this little recorder can rec very good sound in 3 or even 4 different mono microphone channel. Or everything is much complicated?

 

[Steve Sherrick]

It can be as simple or as complex as the scene/project dictates. If you are in a very low budget situation then you will use whatever you have at your disposal. The proper way though is to let a sound professional with external mixers/recorders have full control over the production audio. Saves a lot of time and money later in post. Poor sound is less forgivable to audiences, so I always recommend getting it done right plus you don't want to waste performances by actors. Also, the Zoom H4 I would treat as a two channel recorder even though it can technically record 4 channels. It's the way you have to get the 4 channels input that's the problem.

 

[Alexey Datsenko]

Actually I see that 3 microphones can be connected to Zoom H4 so I think it is possible to rec 3 mono channels. Very important things of course quantity of channel 4 is quite good 6,8 is cool but expensive. Of course if there are 6 actors at the shooting scene actually you have to give one microphone to each actor. But if there are only 2-3 actors? 2-3 channels is enough?
It is good to hire pro sound masters to rec sound but budget is budget and the work has to be done and I think the sound recording technology allow today rec the quality sound with not expensive recorders. For example inexpensive Tascam_DR_680.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/673541-REG/Tascam_DR_680_DR_680_8_Track_Portable_Field.html
It is four channels it is good but what is the principal difference between sound recorded to Zoom H4 and for Tascam_DR_680. It is both wav, good quality. If you rec in good quality 3 different channels you can do everything you want at post. For examples if we shoot the same scene with 3 microphones (even two for example these http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._11D_Omnidirectional_Lavalier_Microphone.html) with Zoom H4 and with Tascam_DR_680 in the same positions of microphones it would be possible to recognize where which was used?
May be the main thing is not in differences in these recorders but in good location and just quantity of microphones?
But if it is needed 4 channels maybe it is good to but two Zoom H4.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I don't believe either the Zoom or the Tascam DR-680 can yield great audio. I think you're much better off using an external mixer and a recorder, like those made by Sound Devices, Zaxcom, Aaton, Fostex, or Nagra. Recording in multiple channels will do you no good if the microphones are bad, if the levels are not optimal, if the mic placement isn't good, or if the acoustics of the environment aren't conducive to good dialogue.

Steve above is correct: the best solution is to hire a pro sound mixer with separate gear. I don't think somebody can operate a camera and worry about getting great sound at the same time. I think worrying about depth of field, focus, exposure, framing, and all the other issues a cameraman has to deal with are already a huge challenge without dumping audio on top of that.

Often, a great deal of sound quality hinges on just getting the microphone close to the actor. I don't see how a camera operator can do this, unless they learn to hold a mic boom over their head while also balancing the camera on their shoulder (or on a tripod). You can only cut corners on cost down to a certain point.