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How to create a ghostly effect

Webster Miller

Webster Miller

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I am working on a project where I need to capture a ghostly image walking through an empty building. The camera is stationary so my first thought is to use the time-lapse feature on my Scarlet. I have performed several tests. I tried different settings with frame summing and with frame averaging. I can get the look I am going for by setting up a time-lapse with frame summing and 360 degree shutter but the frame rate winds up being 1.87 fps. Of course to keep the look the way I want it I would have to have a project frame rate of 1.87 fps. This is for web delivery so this might work(?) if I could set the project frame rate in PP to 1.87 fps. But I cannot figure out how to do that. Is it possible to set a non-standard frame rate in PP?

I also tried several tests with long shutter duration, such as it is, with no success.

Any ideas or suggestions on how I can achieve this effect in camera would be most appreciated.
 
Bob Gundu said:
I would say drop the framerate to 12fps and the shutter to 360. That should give a haunting feeling.
Click to expand...

Pretty good idea. The 360 shutter would add more blur. The 12fps would "speed it up", but also allow you to create interesting "twitchy" edits in post. Very interesting...
 
Webster Miller said:
I am working on a project where I need to capture a ghostly image walking through an empty building. The camera is stationary so my first thought is to use the time-lapse feature on my Scarlet.
Click to expand...
If you have to see through the ghost, then I don't see any other way to do it except to do two passes -- one for the background, one for the ghost itself -- and then blend the two images together. The problem with using motion blurring is that this will affect everything, both the ghost and the background, and I think the results will be much more effective if the blurring only​ affects the ghost.
 
Marc Wielage said:
If you have to see through the ghost, then I don't see any other way to do it except to do two passes -- one for the background, one for the ghost itself -- and then blend the two images together. The problem with using motion blurring is that this will affect everything, both the ghost and the background, and I think the results will be much more effective if the blurring only​ affects the ghost.
Click to expand...

This is why I was trying to use the time-lapse feature and get the look in-camera instead of doing it in post. I can get the ghosting look to show up on the monitor as I am filming but it has a frame rate of 1.87 fps. This, of course, does not work when put into a 24 fps project.

@ Bob and Nick: I tried the 12 fps with 360 degree shutter and it does not give near enough motion blur and has a little bit of the Charlie Chapman (twitchy) look which is not what I am looking for.

Maybe I will have to resort to filming the motion blur person separately on green screen. Just hoping to film the person in the space. It looked perfect on the monitor as I was recording the time-lapse but had a frame rate of 1.87 fps.

Anybody have any other ideas that I could try?
 
averaging/summing/ghosting is very easily done in post, or some combination of in-camera and in-post...
 
Paul, thanks for the reply. Looks like I am going to have to figure out how to make this happen in post. Do you have any pointers on the approach? -> Film the location and person separate. The person on green screen. So as to treat the person with blurring effects separately as Marc stated?

This is an art piece that I am putting together. It should be simple, iff I can figure this part out. Normally, I film short docs with simple post. Even though all my filming is 4K, the Red workflow is so simple. I am in the process of learning After Effects. I have been using Lynda.com. Do you have any recommendations on where to start with the needed post techniques?

Thanks to each of you who have taken the time to help. The Red community is great.
 
Webster Miller said:
Paul, thanks for the reply. Looks like I am going to have to figure out how to make this happen in post. Do you have any pointers on the approach? -> Film the location and person separate. The person on green screen. So as to treat the person with blurring effects separately as Marc stated?

This is an art piece that I am putting together. It should be simple, iff I can figure this part out. Normally, I film short docs with simple post. Even though all my filming is 4K, the Red workflow is so simple. I am in the process of learning After Effects. I have been using Lynda.com. Do you have any recommendations on where to start with the needed post techniques?

Thanks to each of you who have taken the time to help. The Red community is great.
Click to expand...


Check out After Effects for 2 Effects: TIME> ECHO and TIME > POSTERIZE TIME

these should be a good starting point for creating this type of effect, but dont expect to get "47 Ronin" style ghosting , this simply duplicates frames and creates and echo effect, or allows you to adjust the timing of a normal speed clip into something more smeary
 
Thanks for the info. I will play around with the mentioned effects. I have not yet seen 47 Ronin and I do not have a reference film to describe the look I am going for. However, I was able to create the exact look, sorta. The image on the camera monitor, as I was filming, is exactly the image I wanted. Only problem is that the frame rate was just under 2 fps. So, the playback at 24 fps is not what I am looking for.

Thanks again Chad.
 
no need for greenscreen... either lock your camera down or isolate the character in post (windowing/rotoscoping).
 
paulherrin said:
no need for greenscreen... either lock your camera down or isolate the character in post (windowing/rotoscoping).
Click to expand...
That would absolutely work if the camera is locked down. I've seen similar time speed-up/slow-down effects done in True Blood, The Tomorrow People, Twilight, and other "supernatural"-type shows. And they do add motion blur to the fast-moving people.
 
Webster Miller said:
Thanks for the info. I will play around with the mentioned effects. I have not yet seen 47 Ronin and I do not have a reference film to describe the look I am going for. However, I was able to create the exact look, sorta. The image on the camera monitor, as I was filming, is exactly the image I wanted. Only problem is that the frame rate was just under 2 fps. So, the playback at 24 fps is not what I am looking for.

Thanks again Chad.
Click to expand...

there used to be some noise reduction effects in Davinci that, when used in telecine, could produce an effect very much like the frame averaging Epic does. (At least I think it was Davinci that was doing it). IIRC it involved turning noise reduction up to 11. I remember using it on some bad-dream scenes years ago. I'll bet Mark Wielage can tell you exactly what it was.
 
I'm not sure. There might be. I'll have to take a look over the weekend.

Paul H, do you know the answer to that one?

But Davinci is free. So if there is a good answer there, it might be worth learning just that much of it to get it done.
 
D Fuller said:
there used to be some noise reduction effects in Davinci that, when used in telecine, could produce an effect very much like the frame averaging Epic does. (At least I think it was Davinci that was doing it). IIRC it involved turning noise reduction up to 11. I remember using it on some bad-dream scenes years ago. I'll bet Mark Wielage can tell you exactly what it was.
Click to expand...
The hardware version of Digital Vision's DVNR could introduce some horrendous smearing/lag effects when used badly, but I'm not sure if that box even exists anymore. I suspect the "wide time" filter in After Effects could do this if the exposure and settings were right:

 
If what you are seeing in the monitor is exactly what you want and this project is only for web delivery, would it work to connect an external recorder to record what you are seeing on the monitor?
 
Marc, I took a look at the wide-time sample piece and will definitely play around with the effect. Thanks a lot for the help.

David, I have downloaded Davinci Lite and have started going through the documentation. I will continue to play with it to see how I can incorporate it into my workflow.
 
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