Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How to blimp a 6500W Honda generator?

Karim D. Ghantous said:
I have zero experience with these things, however, would it be possible to submerge it in a nearby lake or river? You would of course have to attach manifold extensions.
Click to expand...
You would need more than manifold extensions. If you are going to use portable generators with lights around water, you also need ground fault protection. And, if the lights are HMIs, you definitely want to use Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters (GFCIs) because of the high voltages that HMIs use to strike the globe. If because of moisture, the striking voltage arcs to case ground in the head, under the wrong conditions it can be enough to kill you. So when using HMIs around water, you want to make sure your equipment grounding is in good condition, the generator is grounded, and that you use the right type of GFCI and that they are laid out properly. In additions there are a couple of very important things you know about using GFCIs with HMIs and portable generators.

First, the harmonics that non-PFC HMI ballasts dump back into the power stream will cause hardware store variety GFCIs to trip when there is in fact no ground leak (same is true of Kino, & LED power supplies.) While hardware store variety GFCIs work fine with quartz lights, with HMIs you will need film style Shock Blocks that are specifically designed for motion picture lights.

To prevent such nuisance tripping by non-PFC Kino & HMI ballasts, film style GFCIs, like those manufactured by Bender and Shock Block, sense on an "Inverse Time Curve." And, to deal with the harmonics that non-PFC Kino & HMI ballasts kick back into the power stream (that will cause regular GFCIs to trip), they include a harmonic filter. Attenuated by the filter, the harmonics generated by dirty loads such as non-PFC Kino & HMI ballasts, pose less of a problem. The problem with Shock Blocks is that they don’t come smaller than 100Amps.

The second thing you need to know is that GFCIs (both the hardware store variety and Shock Blocks) do not operate reliably on Honda portable generators like the EU6500is unless used with 240-to-120V step down transformers, because the Honda EU series of inverter generators are not neutral bonded. To make matters worse, GFCI test circuits can be misleading when they are used on these portable generators because they will give a false positive - that is indicate that they will work even though they will not. You will find a lot of information about how unreliable GFCIs are on Honda generators by searching “Honda EU6500is + Shock Block” on the web.

Peter Berger
 
Peter: Shock Blocks can only be rented, not purchased. Does Bender sell its cinema GFCIs? Do you a product model or name? Thanks
 
Michael Panfeld said:
Peter: Shock Blocks can only be rented, not purchased. Does Bender sell its cinema GFCIs? Do you a product model or name? Thanks
Click to expand...

Bender only rents their “LifeGuard” cine GFCIs as well. Outside of Shock Blocks and Bender, I don’t think there is another manufacturer of GFCIs specifically designed for film production. I have seen large amperage Bender industrial GFCIs on ebay. But, since you would have to outfit them with Bates pigtails yourself, they would not be UL listed and when it comes to offering personnel protection you want to have the UL listing.

Peter Berger
 
chad vachter said:
your neutral leg being undersized for the return leg of that proposed circuit ....even if it doesn't pop the breaker from being over-amped.
Click to expand...

Chad: have you modified a eu6500 to accomodate those two concerns (i.e., larger nuetral leg wire, and bypassing the overload circuit)? I believe that is all that ScreenLight and Grip does when they sell their mod'd 7500 watt version. I've studied the wiring diagrams for all 4 EU models and the US model and read what Guy has posted and putting it all together, that's exactly what I have concluded they are doing: bypassing the overload (or perhaps replacing it with a beefier and higher amp protector) circuit, and replacing the neutral wire with a larger guage, but actually doing can be different than describing the issue.

I guess I am looking for conformation and/or any articles on doing it myself, such as what parts to use and what to cut/not cut etc. Thanks
 
Michael Panfeld said:
I guess I am looking for conformation and/or any articles on doing it myself, such as what parts to use and what to cut/not cut etc. Thanks
Click to expand...

I leave electrical wiring to electricians. Here’s why. An electrical shock current of one hundred milliamps (100mA or 0.1A) is a very serious shock capable of causing paralysis of the lungs and heart muscle. If you take such a shock, a circuit breaker is not going to save you. The smallest circuit breaker we use is 20A - that's about two hundred times more current than is needed to kill you. A circuit breaker is not there for your safety, but to product the power generator from overheating and catching fire. If you mis-wire a generator or transformer, and someone takes a lethal shock, you are going wish it was you who died because your going to jail because you modified the generator. That’s why I leave wiring to electricians. If you want more power out of a portable gas generator, get one of the new 10kw Honda EB10000s. ScreenLight & Grip offers an 84A transformer/distro with 120V and 220V bates receptacles that is capable of powering 6kw HMI pars, plus additional lights.

Peter Berger
 
To quiet down sound, I've put a generator inside my grip truck with the door open (for intake/exhaust). Usually the gear I have in the truck is enough to dampen the sound, plus of course the walls of the truck quiet it down tremendously. If you want to dampen it further, you can put sound blankets on the walls of the truck.

The main disadvantage to this approach is that your set needs to be near a road or somewhere you can drive the truck to. If you're deep in the forest, then perhaps several walls of sound blankets would help? As pointed out earlier in this thread, you really have to watch the intake/exhaust out of these. any solution that would require encapsulating the genny is risky if you don't know what you're doing.
 
Peter Berger said:
I leave electrical wiring to electricians. Here’s why. An electrical shock current of one hundred milliamps (100mA or 0.1A) is a very serious shock capable of causing paralysis of the lungs and heart muscle. If you take such a shock, a circuit breaker is not going to save you. The smallest circuit breaker we use is 20A - that's about two hundred times more current than is needed to kill you. A circuit breaker is not there for your safety, but to product the power generator from overheating and catching fire. If you mis-wire a generator or transformer, and someone takes a lethal shock, you are going wish it was you who died because your going to jail because you modified the generator. That’s why I leave wiring to electricians. If you want more power out of a portable gas generator, get one of the new 10kw Honda EB10000s. ScreenLight & Grip offers an 84A transformer/distro with 120V and 220V bates receptacles that is capable of powering 6kw HMI pars, plus additional lights.

Peter Berger
Click to expand...

What's really strange about the ScreenLight & Grip's EB10000 package, and even more strange that you would mention it in a thread about quieting genny noise, is that they have clearly stated that it is not suitable for filming bcause of the noise and dirty waveforms:

"The EB generators are Honda’s “Industrial Generators.” The EB3800, EB5000, EB6500, and now the EB10000 are Neutral bonded and GFCI protected to meet OSHA jobsite regulations.

The Honda EB6500 meets OSHA requirements, but is too loud and too prone to voltage waveform distortion to be practical in motion picture production applications.

Unfortunately the Honda EB generators are AVR type (prone to voltage waveform distortion from dirty loads) and quite loud because of their open frame design. For example the Honda EB10000 is twice as load (72 dBA sound level) as the comparable Honda EU6500is (60 dBA) under full load. Since the Honda EU6500is is an Inverter type, it is less susceptible to voltage waveform distortion, and quite a bit quieter than the EB10000 under less than full load because its’ speed is load dependent.

While Honda’s EB generators meet OSHA requirements, they are not well suited to motion picture production (they are loud and susceptible to voltage waveform distortion."
 
Michael Panfeld said:
What's really strange about the ScreenLight & Grip's EB10000 package, and even more strange that you would mention it in a thread about quieting genny noise, is that they have clearly stated that it is not suitable for filming bcause of the noise and dirty waveforms:
Click to expand...

I mention it because you were about to fry yourself to get another thousand watts out of a portable generator when there are larger generators available. And, I don’t see why it is strange that I would mention it in a thread about quieting genny noise. If it is the article by ScreenLight & Grip on the use of portable generators that you are referring to, they also say: “…. the slight boost we build into our standard Transformer/Distros, not only enables you to place noisier generators, like the 10kW Honda EB10000, further from set where they won't be heard, but also assures that the supply voltage on the secondary side of the transformer does not drop too low. By comparison, without the line-loss compensation of our Transformer/Distros, to avoid the severe voltage drop in our example above you would have to move the generator closer to set where it will definitely be heard on the audio tracks.”

And, “When used with our new 84A Full Power Transformer/Distro with “Voltage Select”, the EB10000 is capable of providing a silent 84 Amps, in a single 120V circuit, on set – enabling you to use larger lights (like Nine-Light Maxi Brutes), or more smaller lights, than has ever been possible on a portable generator”

They also say that with the EB10000 “… you should use only “flicker free” electronic HMI ballasts; and, since it’s inherent AC power waveform is not as clean as that of an inverter generator, we recommend that you use only Power Factor Corrected (PFC) HMI, Kino, and LED ballasts on it.”

So, it is possible to use an open frame generator like the EB10000 for film production if you use PFC ballasts and operate it far enough off set where it won’t be heard and compensate for the line loss over the long cable run with the boost capacity of their transformer/distro.

Peter Berger
 
Build walls around it using hay bales.
Cheap, biodegradable, easy to transport and handle.

Have a fire extingusher to hand.


Mike Brennan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top