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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How Soon After NAB

rockoblm said:
Also, why would they make a cinema camera without the key feature of what gives cinema its look - DOF?
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There's a lot more to creating a cinema look than having shallow DOF. There are a great many cinematic films / movies that do not use shallow DOF.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
There's a lot more to creating a cinema look than having shallow DOF. There are a great many cinematic films / movies that do not use shallow DOF.
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True. I guess thats just my "hope". I love my Red Rock M2, but it'd be nice to have a nice image with good color space, gamma and glass without extra weight and bulk.
 
William Robinette said:
I still think it's funny that even though no information has been released (well, practically nothing) that people are 100% sure this will be a HVX or EX killer.

Guys, what if is just a 4k lipstick cam?
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Couldn't agree more. The fact that this is a "pocket" camera and "complementary" to Red One have me thinking that a lipstick cam is very, very likely.

Hey, I'd love to see an HVX/EX1 "killer" from Red. But they're not in the video camera market and I really don't think that's what Scarlet is. People are foaming at the mouth for what they clearly think or hope will be an inexpensive mini-Red. I tend to think they're going to be disappointed.
 
You may well be right Ravell: it is a question of whether RED intend to compete in such a mass market as the EX1/HVX arena.

IF Scarlet were a lipstick cam I think I'd buy an EX1 (or improved version..)

Also, RED set out to make a Digital Cinema Camera in the RED1, and they have achieved that: the picture is good, REDCODE works.. But it is not at all suited to small productions especially EFP work: it's quite big, heavy and unwieldy, it has lots of issues (like boot time) and most importantly the audio seems to be practically unusable (because there are no audio pots and the camera fan makes noise after 15-20 minutes, presumably meaning that sound from an on-camera mic would not be usable..).

Anyway, this is a SCARLET forum so my point is:
RED1 may not be such a great camera for EFP/ENG, If SCARLET were a lipstick cam then there are LOADS of independent EFP/ENG people currently fascinated by RED who would not be buying either camera..
 
Ravell said:
Couldn't agree more. The fact that this is a "pocket" camera and "complementary" to Red One have me thinking that a lipstick cam is very, very likely.

Hey, I'd love to see an HVX/EX1 "killer" from Red. But they're not in the video camera market and I really don't think that's what Scarlet is. People are foaming at the mouth for what they clearly think or hope will be an inexpensive mini-Red. I tend to think they're going to be disappointed.
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that was my point as well. the features that seem to be on many wish-lists do not seem congruent with the (admittedly minimal) details that we actually know about it.

"pocket" and "will not compete with RED ONE"--just don't add up to the ultimate prosumer camera, which would not fit in my pocket and WOULD compete with RED ONE. it fits neither of these descriptors.

as for an actual lipstick cam--that's a pretty specialized bit of gear. and i'm not sure why they would use the designation "pocket" which implies a walk-around unit. that's why i'm thinking small form factor, good for a crash cam, something that can inter-cut easily with RED but with unique ergonomics. handycam for pros.

i'm not saying this is the camera that i *want* RED to make (though i'd probably buy one as a replacement walkaround and give my existing HV20 walkaround cam to my PA)--it just seems to fit the existing criteria.
 
Why not have it be modular with a cable running from the camera head to the recorder portion?

Think one of those CF Photo Storage vaults mated with a lipstick type head unit, able to be head mounted like those video head units you see all the time in movies like Aliens, Contact etc?

If it was 2K or even 1080p it could revolutionise on-the-spot news gathering in a BIG way with a real "being there" feeling.

Again, only my speculation....

:)

Paul
 
Im not quite sure thats the way it will be. even with the few things jim said. he implied this was going to be a product that would be sold to many many people not just the reservation holders of the REDONE. that says to me MASS Market. if it is mass market it has to be a camera that fishes in the same 5 to 10k market that sony, jvc,panny and canon are in. prosumer is such a dirty word. the only people keeping those cameras in that bubble is the companies I've listed. who says RED couldn't or wouldn't want to pull those people spending 5k to 10k in to the PRO PRO world.

I hate that word anyway. what consumer even advanced consumer is spending 6k on a camera to record birthday parties. very few. wedding videographers maybe. but I'm sure they consider themselves professionals just in a different field to TV and Cinema.
 
darkkelt said:
... even with the few things jim said. he implied this was going to be a product that would be sold to many many people not just the reservation holders of the REDONE. that says to me MASS Market...
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I agree. Since Jim has indicated he expects to sell LOTS of these cameras, I tend to doubt it will be a lipstick camera -- that's just a very small niche, no matter how good the image is. But there are many of us who would willingly forgo a lot of features (even variable frame rates) in order to get our hands on a basic camera capable of cinema quality images. And as wildly underpriced as the Red One is, it's still out of reach for most indie filmmakers. I think the idea that Red and Scarlet won't compete could be seen in the way that an Aaton and CP16 don't compete, although they can both be used for the same purpose.
 
I see won't compete as they won't both be 4k. although it makes sense to have the sensor be 4k but only scale and record to 2k or window 2k. we'll all know very very soon. I'm not elitist about it. I hope the tools become available and cheap enough that we can all use them. I don't believe it should be only for a priviledged few. everybody needs to be part of the RED Revolution
 
darkkelt said:
I don't believe it should be only for a priviledged few. everybody needs to be part of the RED Revolution
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there are a lot of people who would call $10K a ton of money and a $10K camera a luxury that few people can afford. same with $5K--that's a princely sum for most people, actually. it's always "for a privileged few" until it hits your personal price point...then it's suddenly for "everybody..."

just sayin'...
 
it's a cinema camera

I supose, with no tape mechanisme, probably with no lens...
so 5000$ for me it's the maximun i will go for!
 
planet e said:
there are a lot of people who would call $10K a ton of money and a $10K camera a luxury that few people can afford. same with $5K--that's a princely sum for most people, actually. it's always "for a privileged few" until it hits your personal price point...then it's suddenly for "everybody..."

just sayin'...
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but there is an important step between 5k to 10k.
obviously it´s not the same "luxury".
that´s the point for "everybody"
 
For a literally pocket camera there's already the Iconix camera, which someone posted here.

I do not want a POV shaky cam. I want something in a DVX/HVX/EX form factor.

2k is plenty enough- and variable frame rates. And built in CF recording.

If you have a good fixed lens, than I wouldn't mind losing the interchangeable lens feature- I could buy a 35mm adaptor instead. Just make sure the sensor is 35mm full frame.

Iconix camera is a very niche product. I wouldn't believe this would be a wise next step for RED.

"Sony pisses them off"- so it'll certainly be a product that does the same to Sony- and that I can see happening on the professional market (where RED aims to establish itself) were Sony profits more- the ENG and prosumer markets.

So I believe everyone believing it is an HVX/EX competing product should be spot on.
 
darkkelt said:
I see won't compete as they won't both be 4k. although it makes sense to have the sensor be 4k but only scale and record to 2k or window 2k. we'll all know very very soon. I'm not elitist about it. I hope the tools become available and cheap enough that we can all use them. I don't believe it should be only for a priviledged few. everybody needs to be part of the RED Revolution
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I doubt they would do that - scaling 4K to 2K takes up a lot of processing power - way to much to have in a pocket camera without using a control unit or something. Windowing could be done, but I personally think that would be pointless, because making a 35mm 2K sensor would not only be cheaper, but have much larger photosites, which means better sensitivity (and you'd get 35mm DOF).

I personally think it'll be a 2K sensor, probably S16mm sized. 35mm would be nice for DOF and sensitivity, but that would need better lenses, wouldn't it?
 
Most likely you'll need great glass to get that DOF and sharpness you're looking for. If RED had a zoom lens that was 18mm-150mm T1.6 that wasn't interchangeable on Scarlet, with a s35mm sensor recording at 2k, that would be simply amazing.
 
Tenshredd7 said:
Most likely you'll need great glass to get that DOF and sharpness you're looking for. If RED had a zoom lens that was 18mm-150mm T1.6 that wasn't interchangeable on Scarlet, with a s35mm sensor recording at 2k, that would be simply amazing.
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Lol, 18-150mm T1.6? :-)
 
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