How SAFELY can you TRANSFER the DATA from a REDMAG?

[Martin Stevens]

How SAFELY can you TRANSFER the DATA from a REDMAG?

If I copy the Data to a Laptop HardDrive, will the Data be "secure" and accurate, or do I need
to actually watch all the footage to verify that the Data is correct (before I record over the RedMag)?
I use TeraCopy to copy Data on my Windows systems.

Is there a VERIFY RedMag Files software tool out there that can check all the transferred Data
so that I can move on and record over the RedMags?

Is there a stand alone device out there (no laptop or common computer inline) that would allow me
to simple slide a RedMag into it, then push a button and have the Data from the
RedMag copied to an attached HardDrive?

Is there a device out there that does use a laptop or common computer that would allow me
to simple slide a RedMag into it, then push a button and have the Data from the
RedMag copied to an attached HardDrive? And if not a device, then software?

Can I pay someone to make such a device if it does not exist???

 

[Brian Merlen]

Yes, its called Red Data Manager... and it costs 80 dollars.. It does reliable copies and check sums, great tool

 

[Martin Stevens]

Yes, its called Red Data Manager... and it costs 80 dollars.. It does reliable copies and check sums, great tool

Thanks Brian.

So if you use this program, then does it mean you do not have to actually watch all the files
and can delete what's on the RedMag without worries?

 

[Matthew Mann]

You can run a checksum that verifies the transfer. You know the footage transferred bit for bit successfully after a verified checksum, so now it's just a matter of the storage media you transferred to is safe. RAID and redundancy is where it's at from then on out.

If you're dealing with multiple formats, Shotput Pro is great as it supports most every recent codec out there including Epic R3D.

 

[A. Clint Litton]

R3D Data Manager does reliably copy your red media in my opinion, but I don't think it's absolutely fool proof. I've found wavelet corruptions that were not caught by R3DDM but found using RCX while transcoding. That said, it does give me pretty good piece of mind that things are copying correctly (i.e. whatever's present on the card...no issues with cables or errors from readers).

 

[Tom.Wong]

R3D Data Manager does reliably copy your red media in my opinion, but I don't think it's absolutely fool proof. I've found wavelet corruptions that were not caught by R3DDM but found using RCX while transcoding. That said, it does give me pretty good piece of mind that things are copying correctly (i.e. whatever's present on the card...no issues with cables or errors from readers).

well no md5 checksum software can catch corrupt frames unless the corruption happened in the copy. it would still catch it in that cause because the checksum wouldn't match with the loss of data in those corrupt frames. no software can account for something like that. good old fashioned QC by eye is the only way.

i honestly find that with updated OS's and connections, I haven't seen a copy error in ages. ESPECIALLY with esata. it's been the most stable connection thus far, and I still do checksum on set as a safety net, but my own personal use, I've copied 10's of terabytes via finder with not a single corrupt file. I found that it happened a lot more with usb drives, especially on older OS's, like OS leopard. and I think that's really where the scare first cropped up. has anybody seen copy errors via copy paste in snow leopard and above via esata?

 

[Martin Stevens]

R3D Data Manager does reliably copy your red media in my opinion, but I don't think it's absolutely fool proof. I've found wavelet corruptions that were not caught by R3DDM but found using RCX while transcoding. That said, it does give me pretty good piece of mind that things are copying correctly (i.e. whatever's present on the card...no issues with cables or errors from readers).

Are you saying that the corruption was not on the RedMag, but on the copied Data only?

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

I have seen R3D Data Manager report copy errors. Which is fine, because it's one-button-click to re-attempt those errors, and it fixes them.

Conventional wisdom is something like you'll see a corrupt file transfer 1 in 10,000 files. But boy does it suck when it's the one shot you nailed perfectly. And of course that's the shot you will lose.

Checksums take more time than just a simple transfer. But they tell you that every bit (each one and zero) was copied over correctly.

They will NOT tell you if you overexposed your image, or if there is a corrupt frame on a shot on the Mag, or if there is artifacting . . . they only care that the ones and zeroes on the Mag are the same and in the same order as those on the destination drives. Problem on Mag? Problem on Destination drives.

 

[Mike Lary]

R3D Data Manager can be fairly automated. You can configure it to auto-start copying as soon as you insert the mag - to predefined target directories (up to four) and eject or erase mags once the copy and verification is complete. As others stated, it will not alert you to corrupt source. It will copy the source file bit-for-bit, provide you with detailed reports, alert you to any errors and give the option to retry only error files. You still need to visually analyze the footage.

 

[Martin Stevens]

You still need to visually analyze the footage.

This is what I don't understand. If the corruption is on the RedMag then it doesn't matter if you visually check the
copied data, because there is nothing you can do about it....unless you mean check it so that you can
re-shoot the shot that is currupt?

 

[Matt Ryan]

Shot 4 short films and 2 commercials by using the regular finder copy and paste. Never had an issue (crossing fingers). Since I am the DP and then run to my macbook pro and copy the footage to multiple simultaneous drives I don't visually inspect each clip. I make sure the data size matches on both the hard drives and the redmag once the transfer completes, then I format the card. I will occasionally on breaks just take a look in Redcine just to make sure the clips play and I have been fine to this day. This isn't the proper way to do it but if you don't have the resources or the budget to hire a data wrangler or a DIT then you gotta do what you gotta do. If the shoot has a budget I'd hire a professional to handle it properly.

 

[Dustin Cross]

If you're dealing with multiple formats, Shotput Pro is great as it supports most every recent codec out there including Epic R3D.

I highly recommend NOT using Shotput Pro. It has had bugs that will delete all copies of all footage from every drive. Shotput Pro is super dangers and should be avoided! Again, it can delete every copy of your footage from every drive!

If you are working with Red, R3D Data Manager is good.

There is also a shell script that can copy most footage if you are on Mac.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?54803-Copy-amp-md5-Shell-Script


Dusty

 

[Shiblon Wixom]

Most corruption is going to occur when transferring from one type of format, such as FAT32, to another such as NTFS or HREF. Beyond that if you're running on a Mac system use disk utility repair on your Red SSD before using R3D Manager to off load your files, it should avoid most common issues.

 

[Victor Lazaro]

For the push a button solution. It's called NextoDI. I contacted them and they are working on making it compatible with RedMags. Not out yet, maybe next NAB.

 

[PatrickFaith]

With the new red player, set at 1/8 ... what i do (or I require from the production company) is quickly scrub through all footage (if this is a personal project, I do this as I am doing my 2nd copy to a remote drive). Also the timecode/sound check is done at this time. The red SSD shouldn't be handed back to the AC until the 2nd drive has a full validated copy(as a money guy, i think of the production R3D files like cash, and should be looked after and counted just like there was 20K of cash on the table - when I say it this way ... people "get it"). I also now require the 2nd data set to be sent to a 2nd geographically location (i.e. different state then where post production is) ... but this is normally delayed by a few days. It's copying to the 2nd drive and then duplicating to the 2nd geographic location that I've found to be the most error prone(a super cool thing about R3d is its a really nice archive format, way easier then tons of dpx).

 

[Mike Lary]

This is what I don't understand. If the corruption is on the RedMag then it doesn't matter if you visually check the
copied data, because there is nothing you can do about it....unless you mean check it so that you can
re-shoot the shot that is currupt?

Most corruption occurs during copy operations. R3D Data Manager is your insurance against that. Weigh the cost of the app against a single reshoot and it's a no-brainer. The visual check is to identify rare but potentially costly corruptions in-camera, the kind of anomalies that might appear in a single clip sandwiched between hours of perfect footage. Scrubbing slowly through the footage (as Patrick recommended) can help spot those issues. Ideally you should be watching sections of clips if not entire clips.

 

[Mike Garrick]

I guess all this just reinforces the benefits of DIT. However given shrinking budgets, as Matt suggested, this area often is cut .

Whilst I totally sympathise with data errors & loosing valuable footage ....yes I've been there its a bitch....This ain't anything compared to film and the hollow feeling of dawning horror that what was shot yesterday now has to be reshot today because of Lab, stock or human error.

 

[Martin Stevens]

Thank you various RedUser posters.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Have a look at 1Beyond and other such vendors for portable, 1 touch backup systems. they have a little box that will back up redmags to an internal RAID and LTO.

 

[Martin Stevens]

Have a look at 1Beyond and other such vendors for portable, 1 touch backup systems. they have a little box that will back up redmags to an internal RAID and LTO.

Thanks Steve!