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HOW RELIABLE IS AN EPIC ?

A

Alex Macneal

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Hi Redusers,

I´m new to this forum, just wanted to say hello to the community and my first question is perhaps a little bit provocative, but I need your help.
Perhaps some of you will find the time to give me some feedback, because I´m not sure if I should buy an Epic or better not, but I definitively have to buy a camera this year!

Please let me explain:

First of all, I have always been and still am a big RED - FAN. But never owned one.

The last few years I shot many projects on different Epics from rentalhouses. Sometimes there have been some problems with the cameras but not really big ones, like
the touch screen didn´t work any more (problem fixed with a restart - every 30 minutes - became a running gag...), or redmote didn´t work, etc., but thank god I never had
damaged files or something like that. But I do not have a so called "long-time-experience" with one single RED camera.

Over the last few months some of my colleagues told me crazy stories about their experiences with their own Epics or cameras from rentalhouses, like frames dropped, files damaged, hardwareproblems, only to mention a few. I also read some "horror-stories" on this forum.
Somehow this camera seems to become some kind of a career-killer or job-killer for a few people...
I don´t understand this, because I always thought all those Beta-test-issues are fixed.

So my question is: Is a Red Epic in your eyes a reliable camera, that I can buy regardless or should I continue to rent it to keep away the responsibility for technical problems because of the fact that RED is not able to build a camera that works.

Thanks in advance!!!
 
Alex, I can't speak for others on the reliability of the camera, but here in a nutshell is what I believe.

The more familiar you become with the Epic, the more reliable it becomes.
 
Welcome alex!

Nice first post.


I think it's natural you will find people venting here, but you will also find a lot of great success stories here as well.


Generally, if you prep, keep fw updated and don't abuse the crap out of the gear, it works.


In my own case t has been very reliable without any real issues and no dropped frames over hundreds and hundreds of camera hours.


I think you will find a mixed bag, but my experience has been positive.


People are far more likely to post negative experiences. Don't let that sway you. They are wel built machines.




David
 
it depends - on release firmware our EPIC is "rock solid" since day one, on beta firmware it has had it's glitches in the past (but nothing that could not have been resolved with a reboot or other workarounds)…
 
I have never had any problems with either of mine, or the two that a client of mine has. I have seen problems.I think 90% of problems are power related. V lock batteries suck. The connection is shitty, the contacts arc and fuck up, and then you have wonky power going to the camera. Since the cameras came out, almost all of the problems I have seen have been on vlock cameras. Never had any problems with AB mount batts. There is also the issue of morons treating cameras like circular saws. They are cameras. Treat them as such, and they are usually fine, abuse them, and you will have issues. Normal stuff that any other pro camera can handle, the red's are fine with. Heat, cold, a little light rain every now and again. no big deal.

I think the epic is extremely robust and reliable.

Nick
 
You have to know the camera well to consider it "reliable" IMHO. I have never had a single camera problem that held up production with our Epic or Scarlet. I have had to do on-set restarts on occasion to get ride of some minor monitoring issues, but other than that it's rock solid. The monitoring issues are never recorded, so I always wait til it's more convenient time to do a restart.

Our Scarlet has been used by another cam-op who had tons of "problems" and couldn't figure it out. These cameras are like anything, the more you know about them the better they work for you. Same goes with all things in this business, the more time you spend perfecting your craft, the easier it gets and the less problems you have. The idea that these cameras are not reliable comes from the few(and often vocal) people that don't take the time to really learn how these cameras work. Simply put, the same thing that makes these cameras amazing is the same thing that makes them problematic: You have complete control over everything and can customize to your heart's content.
 
A flew little glitches but nothing a reboot doesnt fix.

Other than that. never had an issue that stopped the shoot. ... oops.. sorry. there was one about 2 years ago, some early Beta software, camera would turn back on.

Since then, almost bullet proof.
 
Alex - if you ask me, you are very fortunate the folks on this forum are so gosh darned friendly and helpful. Personally, it seems to me that a first post like that only comes from a troll. Then again, I am sort of a crusty skeptic so I guess I could be wrong. I have worked with a RED One and a couple Scarlets (including my own) over the last few years and they have all performed flawlessly. Many of the "stories" often come from folks who just don't like RED's disruption of the industry and never will.
 
The epic has grown leaps and bounds since the early days which garnered its bad reputation. It's reliable and robust today. Spend time on other camera manufacturers forums you'll hear the same horror stories in their beta firmware builds. This is the best time to buy an Epic
 
Mark Toia said:
A flew little glitches but nothing a reboot doesnt fix.
Click to expand...

Agreed, and this holds true for my old RED ONE and my EPIC, which I have been using several days a week for the last year and a half pretty much. I traveld with this camera to europe, america and south america, had it in a cinebag backpack and never had any issues that forced me to terminate the shoot.

get to know the camera, be prepared and you wont have any issues....if you are using gear from a rental house, make sure you go in well before the shoot and test every bit of equipment you are going to hire. If its a reputable rental house they will give you a mobile number to one of their technicians you should be able to call 24/7....even I offer that to anyone who hires my gear.

The only time my R1 was out of service when someone on set tripped over a cable and yanked the XLR port out fo the camera and it had to go back to get the audio board fixed, but even then the actual recording (minus on board sound) still worked fine.

I wrote my PhD paper ond digital camera systems and had to interview a lot of industry and rental house people, what I found was that most of the "seemingly bad reputation" RED seems to get from biased people, comes from individuals who never shot with red, dont really understand red, or haven't used red gear to their full potential or the way its intended. I am nowhere near a pro as most people here on this forum, but I owned a red one from fairly early on and now an epic, I treat my gear well but I am also happy to take risks for a nice shot... last year my EPIC tumbled 400m down an active volcano on a Jackie Chan feature. covered in magnetic dust and other toxic substances and it still works...I've been using it every week for a couple of hours since ( a lot of shooting hours near the beach with salt water spray or in the aussie outback heat and dust) and never had any serious issues that a simple, 15 second reboot wouldn't fix.

What sort of work do you intend to do with the camera ?

this camera, like any piece of gear in this world only becomes a job killer for people who dont do their job properly. if you test, prepare and educate yourself about your work tools chances of a Fxxx Up are fairly minimal.
 
Here's the main problem in my opinion. RED comes out with a new Betaware, and RED users go nuts with it. They tell you that it's not a good idea to use Betaware on commercial gigs, but people do it anyway, lots of people. Then problems start to happen, and next thing you know after this happens tons of times, people think of RED as unreliable and unstable. I have been on 100k shoots when the Epic owner (1st unit AC) decided to upgrade to a Betaware in between day one and two, and one thing after another starts happening. Next thing you know the DP is pissed, and everyone is laughing at the Epic owner for even owning an Epic. I have never had even one problem with my Epic, but that is because I never upgraded firmware until a solid build came out. I mean I passed up something like 3 or 4 builds before I would upgrade. Because I want a stable camera.
 
I've owned and shot with 4 RED ONE's an EPIC-M and an EPIC-X over the last 5 years. No unexplainable issues. A couple repairs that required sending to RED. Several FREE upgrades. Lots of free software and firmware upgrades to fix any reproducible problems.

This isn't just a camera, it's a sophisticated computer. Learn how to use it and keep it up to date. Power it properly. Secure all cable connections. Use quality cables. Don't let it overheat. Don't bounce it around. It will treat you right.

Michael Zaletel
Founder, i4software
Vizzywig • Fast Camera
 
Its definitely an interesting time to own a RED camera. I own two; An MX & An Epic and maybe soon to become dragon perhaps. I am no pleasing fanboy of red nor a basher. I certainly have a love and hate relationship with my Epic. I think it really depends on the sort of projects you will be using yours for. Documentaries... run away. Fan is noisy, although a replacement is available, yet to be tested and I find it noisy in the blacks in low light. For quick turn around for like commercials... better invest in external recorders, although cheap now with plenty of options, or have a rocket set up for fast transcoding.

There are a lot of things you need to do to keep it in top notch performance like black shade, builds upgrades, etc... Be prepared to throw A LOT more $$ on accessories and figure out your post workflow if you haven't already. If you planing on renting it out forget it, especially in LA as there are people renting theirs for $100/$200 on craigslist! Which really makes it an owner's camera and pray production doesn't go with the other brands because of all the red flags, no pun intended :-) One thing to be aware is it may not hold its value as red may slash its prices without notice. So you may buy yours today and tomorrow red sales it for half. It has happen before... with the arrival of the F55 and may happen again especially with this 4k/global shutter black magic camera under $4K coming out in July.

The camera works and is reliable most of the time and some people had nothing but problems others none to speak of. Its really per case basis. The best part about RED is this forum period. This community will come at your rescue when you need it the most and there is an amount of information and people willing to go the extra mile to help a fellow red user
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Alex - if you ask me, you are very fortunate the folks on this forum are so gosh darned friendly and helpful. Personally, it seems to me that a first post like that only comes from a troll. Then again, I am sort of a crusty skeptic so I guess I could be wrong. I have worked with a RED One and a couple Scarlets (including my own) over the last few years and they have all performed flawlessly. Many of the "stories" often come from folks who just don't like RED's disruption of the industry and never will.
Click to expand...

Terry, sorry I don´t understand your first sentense. Why should there be any reason not to be friendly? I didn´t ask anything that could hurt someone. What do you mean with "troll"?
 
Jon Jones said:
Now the REDMOTE.... That is another story, if you see that thing, just pick it up and throw it in the lake. It'll save you a headache or two.
Click to expand...

Haha, that´s what I thought when I used it, but I didn´t find a lake that day.
 
Jean Bernard said:
Its definitely an interesting time to own a RED camera. I own two; An MX & An Epic and maybe soon to become dragon perhaps. I am no pleasing fanboy of red nor a basher. I certainly have a love and hate relationship with my Epic. I think it really depends on the sort of projects you will be using yours for. Documentaries... run away. Fan is noisy, although a replacement is available, yet to be tested and I find it noisy in the blacks in low light. For quick turn around for like commercials... better invest in external recorders, although cheap now with plenty of options, or have a rocket set up for fast transcoding.

There are a lot of things you need to do to keep it in top notch performance like black shade, builds upgrades, etc... Be prepared to throw A LOT more $$ on accessories and figure out your post workflow if you haven't already. If you planing on renting it out forget it, especially in LA as there are people renting theirs for $100/$200 on craigslist! Which really makes it an owner's camera and pray production doesn't go with the other brands because of all the red flags, no pun intended :-) One thing to be aware is it may not hold its value as red may slash its prices without notice. So you may buy yours today and tomorrow red sales it for half. It has happen before... with the arrival of the F55 and may happen again especially with this 4k/global shutter black magic camera under $4K coming out in July.

The camera works and is reliable most of the time and some people had nothing but problems others none to speak of. Its really per case basis. The best part about RED is this forum period. This community will come at your rescue when you need it the most and there is an amount of information and people willing to go the extra mile to help a fellow red user
Click to expand...


Very interesting answer! Thank you very much!
 
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