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How much noise is acceptable in low light?

T

T.A. Franks

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Hi,

I just received a Scarlet yesterday, and trying wrap my head around this camera.
So I am doing some testing and experimenting here and there. Anyways what is the acceptable level of noise when shooting in low light?

Here is a snapshot and from the looks of it not that great.
I know most digital cameras need allot of light but in this case I would expect more from the Scarlet, or am I wrong here?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/48766519/A001_C001_1123E5.0000000F.R3D
 
That is to be expected from an underexposed image from any camera. Also, when shooting in tungsten light you will have a noisier blue channel which will add noise to your image when properly balanced. This can be corrected with a blue 80A of 80B filter when shooting in tungsten light.
 
No we have the normal lights on.
The thing is we do allot real live shooting where there is no possibility to setup light.
I will take a photo with a Canon DSLR and the same lens to compare it.

Thanks
 
I think your shutter setting might have been off. I was looking at the metadata and unless I'm reading it wrong, the shutter was set to 172.8. If correct, shooting at 48 would have brightened it up a chunk.

Still, if you had no lights and was just shooting, Red cameras aren't probably as great under low light as some dslrs. Dragon might change that.
 
Wil is right, change your shutter to 1/48 (or 180 degrees). Also I noticed your lens was at f/4. If that is wide open, you may want to check out another lens.
 
I don't have personal tests around this but it seems that, when forced to shoot in low light, you might do better lowering your compression.
 
In my experience, digital cinema cameras respond best when treating them like the cameras they are meant to replace, i.e. film cameras. Lighting is a big part of the look of film. In recent years, film stocks have got faster and with less grain. You can push them quite a bit now. Even with fast stock though, your best results are when you light the scenes appropriately, meaning that every decision is based on what's best for the shot/scene. If it's supposed to look gritty/textured then noise/grain may be appropriate. If it's supposed to be clean with very fine grain/noise then that will require the tools necessary to get that look. Within the realm of digital cinema cameras the various ones out there handle low light situations a little differently but best results are still achieved with lighting and modifiers. In my opinion, there's no way around this. Sometimes things that are read by the camera as normal, i.e. natural light, don't look right for a movie scene.

So, in your case by turning on the camera in a natural lighting situation and assuming you have the settings correct, you are getting what the camera sees but not what it's potential is. There may be noise if you are in very low light tungsten scenario. The better test is to light some scenes the way you normally would and see how the camera responds. See what modifications to your lighting approach may be necessary to get exactly what you want from the camera. There are better options in terms of capturing the real world in a run and gun manner. These cameras are designed to get the most light out of scenes but often with some compromises such as in camera noise reduction. RED gives you RAW. Up to you to make the image what you need it to be. If there is some marginal noise that shouldn't be there you can play with the image in post and see if noise reduction is a good compromise.

I think RED can hold it's own in practical low light situations. Asking it to see in the dark becomes a bit trickier, but even then there are ways to make it work to a certain extent.

Make sure your black shading is correct as well.
 
F/4 and low light are mortal enimies. A still with the same lens won't tell you much unless you match the ISO and shutter as well.

For low light you want to use a lens in the f/1.4 - f/2.0 range somewhere. Combined with a 180° shutter you should start getting decent results.

As Steve said, RED are the next generation of film cameras, if you control the environment and give them what they want they will give you gold. Other ccnditions can be catered for, with things like using the correct lenses and settings, but best not to compare to anything else.
 
Of course the problem with this is unless you have a lot of light to throw at it, you are losing another 1/2 stop or something, which is a lot. I think filters are better suited to studio shooting than run&gun using available light.

Drew Baird said:
That is to be expected from an underexposed image from any camera. Also, when shooting in tungsten light you will have a noisier blue channel which will add noise to your image when properly balanced. This can be corrected with a blue 80A of 80B filter when shooting in tungsten light.
Click to expand...
 
Not to sound too critical, but you really ought to wrap your head around basic photography and how to expose correctly.

T.A. Franks said:
Hi,

I just received a Scarlet yesterday, and trying wrap my head around this camera.
So I am doing some testing and experimenting here and there. Anyways what is the acceptable level of noise when shooting in low light?

Here is a snapshot and from the looks of it not that great.
I know most digital cameras need allot of light but in this case I would expect more from the Scarlet, or am I wrong here?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/48766519/A001_C001_1123E5.0000000F.R3D
Click to expand...
 
172.8 degree shutter is "correct" for shooting 24fps in 50hz countries.
 
Yes, I am located in a 50hz country ;)
Okay took a closer look your right it was taking at f/4... kinda missed that looking in the EVF, should have grabbed the touch screen... now I only have some Canon lenses at home so that is what I have for this weekend.
Anyways the lens can go down to f/2.8 and another I just looked at f/1.2 but on the camera f/4 is the lowest I can go. Is this because they are Canon lenses?
So this amount of noise level is cool then...
 
Its normal....

But you should perhaps Black shade the camera. Leave it running for about 20 min with the AC power adapter, then perform it. Should help a bit.
 
Sorry, complete RED newbie here. If the Canon 50mm lens is f1.2, can the scarlet go operate at f1.2 or is it stuck at f4 ?


thanks
 
Yes, Scarlet/Epic can operate your lenses at their wide-open F-stop... I'm going to chock this particular case up to a.) user error or b.) a glitch somewhere along the line.

Is the lens a variable fstop zoom (e.g. 24-70 f2.8-4)? This is going to sound mean (but I honestly don't mean it to be - I'd just like to get some clarity): how much do you know about photography (still or motion) and lenses?
 
No harm here, you don't know my background as I don't know yours. ;)
Yes I do know my lenses and motion "photography" which some can be translated over to still.
Don't forget, in the moment i am just trying out this camera comparing what I get vs what I would get with a other. And there are some big difference. Which is okay... all cameras don't operate or look the same. But I do have expectation.

Anyways you are saying the camera can operate the lenses at their wide open f-stop. I see what you are saying with the variable f-stop zoom lenses.
Which is not the case here, I used two standard lenses and both stop at f/4.

is there f stop lock or a, possibility the camera is recognizing the lens?

Thanks
 
Do you see the f-stop on the touch screen? If not, there's something wrong with the electronics. If you see it, you should be able to control it over the whole range.
 
Yup.

Shooting outdoors in a forest, T2.8 is pushing it. I'd like a T1.3 but T2 could work.

Julio Quintana said:
Shooting in low light at an f4 is not really an option. You need a faster lens for sure.
Click to expand...
 
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