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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How many of you are not planning to upgrade to Dragon ?

How many of you are not planning to upgrade to Dragon ?

  • Upgrade to Scarlet Dragon.

    Votes: 21 21.0%

  • Upgrade to Epic Dragon.

    Votes: 18 18.0%

  • Upgrade to Epic MX.

    Votes: 20 20.0%

  • Keep shooting with Scarlet MX.

    Votes: 28 28.0%

  • Sell Scarlet MX & get other camera.

    Votes: 13 13.0%
  • Total voters
    100
I'm going to blindly throw in this question.

Is there a decent 4K camera out there that can shoot a variety of frame rates (yes at lower res) compared to the Scarlet?

Just wondering cause Ive worked with a few (close but not 4K) and so far they dont cut it.

Sure maybe in April there will be one that matches or do better than the Scarlet, but Ive had mine for two years now, I guess its about time someone catches up (were talking price point too here).

Im open to suggestions.
 
Eric Santiago said:
I'm going to blindly throw in this question.

Is there a decent 4K camera out there that can shoot a variety of frame rates (yes at lower res) compared to the Scarlet?

Just wondering cause Ive worked with a few (close but not 4K) and so far they dont cut it.

Sure maybe in April there will be one that matches or do better than the Scarlet, but Ive had mine for two years now, I guess its about time someone catches up (were talking price point too here).

Im open to suggestions.
Click to expand...

Yes... there is a camera that captures 4k at higher frame rates... it's called the Scarlet Dragon.

ha ha. Sorry, I had to.
 
Depends how you define 4k I suppose. Arri's Amira will deliver ProRes UHD straight out of camera, up to 60fps. Others will claim that upscaling a 3.2K or what have you signal to UHD is not by anyone's definition 4k. Depends which producer or camera owner you ask...

Sony's FS-7 is also 60fps at QFHD, true 4096 4K "early 2015" update.

Red Epic is the 4K high speed camera for most productions. Phantom's 4K (1,000+fps) for when you wanna go nuts.
 
I would suggest getting out of your Scarlet MX asap. It's a great camera, but it will quickly be EOL as far as resale value is concerned. Scarlet Dragon is a beast compared to Scarlet MX and things will only improve in the coming months and years. And personally, I would much rather have a Scarlet Dragon than an Epic MX. As an owner/operator... color, DR, and low light sensitivity are worth more to me than high frame rates.
 
Unfortunately the $3K bump makes the question hard to answer
Was planning to upgrade but not by end of November
 
Ryan De Franco said:
Depends how you define 4k I suppose. Arri's Amira will deliver ProRes UHD straight out of camera, up to 60fps. Others will claim that upscaling a 3.2K or what have you signal to UHD is not by anyone's definition 4k. Depends which producer or camera owner you ask...
Sony's FS-7 is also 60fps at QFHD, true 4096 4K "early 2015" update.

Red Epic is the 4K high speed camera for most productions. Phantom's 4K (1,000+fps) for when you wanna go nuts.
Click to expand...

The problem I e found with epic and big speed is the compression. 96 coz the lowest you can go is 16:1. To me that's not really a great situation. Ends up not being a ton better than 3k at low compression. Has anyone else experienced that
 
I upgraded to MX and then Dragon. I haven't paid both off yet but expect to next year. I've already paid off the Scarlet -> EpicMX upgrade off of jobs I would have needed to rent an Epic for if didn't upgrade. On my last project we shot a lot in very difficult lighting conditions: covered tropical canopy with bright daylight and white clouds. The Dragon dynamic range was invaluable. It was also a full week rental/shooting project of highspeed 96-120fps footage in UHD. Obviously the only way to shoot this was on Epic. And a full week of rental at an epic rate when the Scarlet would be sitting idle makes the upgrade price a no-brainer.

Ryan Hamblin said:
The problem I e found with epic and big speed is the compression. 96 coz the lowest you can go is 16:1. To me that's not really a great situation. Ends up not being a ton better than 3k at low compression. Has anyone else experienced that
Click to expand...

As I just mentioned, my last shoot was about 3TB of almost exclusively 96fps+ material. Only 4 shots were below 60fps. 16:1 worked about 60% of the time, was iffy about 30% of the time and was unusable about 10% of the time. After reviewing the first day's footage I made the decision that we wouldn't be shooting anything in 6k except 60p and even then only when necessary. 4k at 6:1 always looks great at 96fps. 5k at 12:1 96fps works about 75% of the time pretty well, iffy about 12% and unusable about 3%. I'm really tempted now to migrate to minimags for the compression alone but it's hard to find extra mags for rent. Very few people seem to be adopting minimags but I apparently desperately need their speed in a larger form factor. I really hope RED releases a 512Minimag in 1.8" form.
 
Not much. 240GB is 15:1 vs 128/256GB is 17:1. Mini-mag is 13:1.

To make WS 6k really effective at 96fps I think you need at least 12 or 13:1. Even 13:1 is pretty iffy. 15:1 I would consider too risky for production unless you're reviewing every setup on a DIT station before proceeding. So we need something faster than even the minimag.
 
Thanks guys this is great info!

Does anyone know the compression options for the scarlet dragon at the fps available?

Cheers

S
 
Anthony Berenato Jr said:
Finally got my Scarlet back after a week and a half at RED Headquarters. I was worried that the Dragon upgrade wouldn't be worth it, but DAMN. These colors are so natural, and having some slow motion is a blessing. 8:1 REDCODE is so clean in comparison to MX. Daylight that used to feel like it would clip squeezes right in. No IR contamination that burns though color correction time. The grain structure is so film-like. The list goes on...

This is the camera I wanted when I bought my body a year ago. I wish everyone could experience it. Worth every penny, and I hope to get some tests online soon.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you. The improved color and extra dynamic range alone make the upgrade worth it. That we now get 5k at up to 60fps (vs 4k at 36fps) is a huge bonus. I remember shooting with a Panaflex Gold II ~10 years ago that maxed out at 34 (or 40?) fps, weighed 50-60lbs, required a big insurance policy, and could only be rented. Oh, and 500 ASA was considered high ISO. Don't even get me started about the crap B&W on set monitoring options, digitizing one-light dailies off beta tape, having to deal with keycode data on floppy disks, not being able to see the full quality of your work until the final grade and shooting on short ends. I'll take shooting on any flavor of Dragon over that any day.
 
here is that list:

from when i have used the epic dragon i have not seen double the quality in the compression so numbers like:

15:1 - 5kHD @ 48 ( don't get me started on the 48:)

and

12:1 - 4k HD @ 60

worry me a little but have read on another post brandon saying it looked good.


fuck it!! i'm giving them my money for the upgrade today!

wish me luck:)
 

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Its interesting to read the different reasoning and thoughts regarding the upgrades. All good arguments. I am lucky I have been able to afford the upgrade from Scarlet to Epic MX ( a year ago) and now to Dragon. I think we are lucky to have the choice. My camera is a personal camera.. never rented and I work it enough to justify the investment. The camera has paid for its self in days worked and the upgrade although not a necessity ( most of my clients wouldn't even notice) I can justify the cost with all the benefits that have been mentioned here. I am also protecting my investment for at least another year for $9,500.00 pretty reasonable price to pay to have a world class camera at my disposal 24/7 for the year. And at the and of the day the Dragon will still be worth more then an MX.
I debated for a long time and the recent developments with the interchangeable OLPF closed the deal for me.
 
I was planning on getting the upgrade before Dec 1st. But budget and finance plan did not work for me this time.


I will keep enjoying My Epic MX for now. Definitely a great tool still.
Looking forward for next year. :)
 
Scarlet Dragon = the latest sensor = better performance then current Epic ( other than HFR ).

So given we're days away from Dec. 1 people need to make a decision real quick. Cash flow obviously impacts that decision and if you can't then you are in a bind.
 
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