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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How long does it take to empty a 64gb red ssd card?

Jeff Kilgroe said:
Yes, that would work alright. You can connect the G-RAID to one port and the RED Station reader to the other port. Without specifically testing, I would expect offloads could happen at speeds of 180~200MB/s. Half that if you do a verify pass.
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Cool, thanks. So even with a verify pass, I should be able to do continuous recording by running back-and-forth with my two SSDs... :/
 
Jonas Klittmark said:
Cool, thanks. So even with a verify pass, I should be able to do continuous recording by running back-and-forth with my two SSDs... :/
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Should. But it depends how fast you shoot and round-trip the cards. On many productions, even small low-budget jobs, I've seen enough things happen from user error to computer glitches, card runner stops to flirt with the girl delivering lunch... And the next thin you know, you have 3 or 4 cards and the camera is still waiting for media to come back. ...Hasn't been an issue for me since the early days of using CF on the RED One as I plan accordingly, but something to keep in mind. With just 2 cards, you will have to be pretty efficient and hope you don't run into any snags.

Also for those of you benchmarking eSATA via ExpressCard adapters, keep in mind that most ExpressCard solutions will be limited to about 235MB/s total bandwidth for real-world numbers. This is less than a single 3Gbps SATA port (ExpressCard is 250MB/s). On the latest Macbook Pro systems and some PC laptops, ExpressCard 2.0 offers 500MB/s or a real-world typical maximum of about 475MB/s. A good card with properly written drivers can go a long way to maximizing these transfer speeds and minimizing the amount of data that needs to feed back to the system and then back to the SATA host when copying between attached devices.
 
This is very interesting thread, thanks for the information and calculations, everyone!

Due to financial reasons, I have also limited my initial Scarlet purchase to two 128 GB Redmags. I am trying to find an economical solution to offload both of them on set during a 60 minute break... preferably to two different hard drives or solid state memory units at the same time.

I do have an older 17" Macbook Pro and one option I've been thinking about is to put a 512GB SSD in it and use an eSata adaptor in the expresscard slot to connect to the 1.8" red station.

I just stumbled upon Kingstons USB 3 memory sticks which seem to have a relatively high write rate ( http://www.rwlabs.com/article.php?cat=&id=558&pagenumber=9 ). I wonder if a dedicated Windows-based offload laptop would be a good idea?

Here are all the components I assume would be needed for a mobile usb 3.0 based Redmag offloading solution:

http://www.kingston.com/ukroot/flash/dthx30.asp $249 * 2
http://www.amazon.com/BYTECC-SuperSpeed-eSATA-3Gbs-Adapter/dp/B003EMJ34U $18
http://www.asus.com/Eee/Eee_PC/Eee_PC_1015PEM/#specifications $272

According to my calculations, it should take about 30 minutes to offload both of the 128GB Redmags on this setup. The cost of the entire setup would be only $788. As an added bonus it would be possible to leave the laptop to copy the contents of the USB memory stick to the internal 320GB SATA hard drive after the break.

On the other hand, I feel much more comfortable working on a Macbook Pro than on a Windows machine. All things considered, perhaps an expresscard esata adapter with an external hard drive on the MBP would be a more reliable mobile offloading station. I would prefer a solid state media for the offloads though, hmm...

And would the USB 3 bandwidth be enough for both read and writes at the same time... not sure about that either.

--
api
 
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It also occurred to me that with the aforementioned set-up it would, in theory, be possible to make dual back-ups of two 128 GB redmags (one copy on usb memory sticks and another on the internal HD of the laptop) on set OR store a total of 800 GB of data in a very compact solution. Well, obviously it's not as compact as three 256 GB Redmags :)
 
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The question.
I am wondering if anyone who has experience can tell me how long it takes to empty a completely full 64GB SSD card to a computer via firewire 800 as this will help me determine how many RED SSD's I should buy.
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The wrong answer.
FireWire 800: 10 minutes, 40 seconds
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There seem to be 18 years of talking out his number two here.

In the real world, you should always estimate 2GB per minute for Firewire800, this number may be double if you daisy chain your Firewire800.

Remember you should do dual copy from the original, I always make two copies before I recycle the media.

Thanks You Jeff for being so PC "Armchair DIT" about this, but enough is enough.

I am wondering if anyone who has experience can tell me how long it takes to empty a completely full 64GB SSD card to a computer via firewire 800 as this will help me determine how many RED SSD's I should buy.
Click to expand...

3x64GB SSD is getting by, if you are really DITing and Media managing at the same time. I would say you will need 8-12 just in case there is a problem and you have to be at the camera all day.

In a normal enviroment 4x64GB SSD is enough, if you are doing mostly media managing.

Pay attention to the director's shooting ratio. If he does 8 takes or less you are safe with my advice.

P. S. Do not use my number for a Fincher's movie.

LOL
 
enrique blein said:
Brian or Jeff:

If the hard drive is 7200 rpm or 5400 rpm, would that matter if the connection is eSata? which one is the bottleneck? I'm looking at this option because it can be bus powered:

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer Technology/GM8QM5S15T16/

in Raid 1 so I have immediate backup...

BTW don't even bother with strange inarticulate comments...
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Whenever you're using a slower-spinning drive, there's always going to be a reduction in speed. Also, keep in mind that these are 2.5" disks. So, they are going to be noticeable slower than 3.5" 7200 RPM drives. The "Benchmarks" section of the product page for that item states that when using RAID 1, you can expect speeds of around 95 MB/s. At that rate, it would take 12+ minutes to empty a 64 GB card. So, it's not too bad... If you like the enclosure, I'd say go for it since you'll have an immediate backup as you're using RAID 1.

Also, I just noticed your second question. The bottleneck in this case would be the speed of the disk.

5400 RPM 2.5" disk in enclosure: 95 MB/s
REDMAG SSD: 260 MB/s

OWC's (NewerTech's) faster, 3.5" 7200 RPM model of that enclosure is this: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/usb/raid_1/Gmax
 
Laco Zamba said:
Fantastic speed.
Click to expand...

No bottlenecks. ;)

Now we need thunderbolt RED Station Redmag.
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I'd gladly take that. Although, I doubt it would help in the speed department. We would still be limited by the eSATA-based interface of the RED SSD media itself. Of course, that goes without saying anything about future media, which may have a much faster interface and speed ability.
 
Brian, I applaud your helpfulness, but theoretical speeds are only useful for people in hard drive marketing departments. Real-world times are what people need to see here. It takes me 14 minutes to copy a folder full of 64 gigs of footage from one 7200 internal drive to another. If you're going from a Red -- or any -- SSD over eSata to a 7200 drive, I can't imagine that number being much different -- the bottlenecks are sata and drive speed. It takes me 27 minutes to transfer the same folder to an external 7200 drive via FW800, which fits with Michael's estimation of 2 gigs a minute. FW800 is the bottleneck here. If anyone is copying 64 gigs of data from one place to another over FW800 and doing it in (significantly) less than 27 minutes, I would very much like to know how.
 
joshua csehak said:
If anyone is copying 64 gigs of data from one place to another over FW800 and doing it in (significantly) less than 27 minutes, I would very much like to know how.
Click to expand...

So, if I understand correctly, you want to see 64 GB of data transferred from one location to another over a single FireWire 800 cable in less than 27 minutes?

Because if that's all, I'll do it and upload a video.
 
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On the slower end of real-world data, just got 1hr 15min for 90GB (off a 256 card) through R3D Data Manager using MD5 going to two G-Raids. Card through FW800 and the drives through eSATA, on a MBP.
 
Kevin Marshall said:
On the slower end of real-world data, just got 1hr 15min for 90GB (off a 256 card) through R3D Data Manager using MD5 going to two G-Raids. Card through FW800 and the drives through eSATA, on a MBP.
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Seventy-five minutes for 90 GB?! Wow, that's a transfer rate of only 20 MB/s! That's extraordinarily slow... Are each of the G-RAIDS configured in RAID 0?
 
Brian Iannone said:
Seventy-five minutes for 90 GB?! Wow, that's a transfer rate of only 20 MB/s! That's extraordinarily slow... Are each of the G-RAIDS configured in RAID 0?
Click to expand...

Yeah, they're each RAID 0.

Time breakdown:

20min generating checksums
35min data copy
20min verifying checksums
 
Brian Iannone said:
So, if I understand correctly, you want to see 64 GB of data transferred from one location to another over a single FireWire 800 cable in less than 27 minutes?

Because if that's all, I'll do it and upload a video.
Click to expand...

I believe you, I just want to know the specifics.
 
You Guys remember, that when you copy on a single dasychained FW800 Bus from RED SSD (a) via fw800 to external disk (b) you pipe the whole data through the controller in your MacBook (c) so
doubling the traffic ;-)
Thus halving the realworld speed.. and suddenly 27min makes sense...
 
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