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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How long after the s35 will the FF35 be released?

david farland

david farland

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Has there been any word on how long after the s35 Epics/Scarlet release, that the FF35 (& higher) cameras will be released?

Initial announcements were that the FF35 camera would be 6 months after s35 Epic/Scarlet release and the 645 etc, another six months after that?
Any update/change on this?

David
 
I think everything has been put on a "when it's ready" status. I wouldn't expect projections anytime soon.
 
David, I think it's fair to assume that the vast majority of Red's resources
are being focused on bringing the Epic S35 to market ...

Then the Scarlet fixed, then the Scarlet S35 ... and THEN the FF Epic.

I also imagine that Epic will create such a splash, that Red will ride it out
and make sure to get it into the hands of anyone and everyone they possibly
can. With that in mind, I would guess it could be at least 6 months to a
year before it would make sense to release another Epic model.

The good news is that it seems like most of the groundwork/technology will
be done and releasing the FF models will be largely about finalizing the new
sensor.

Of course I could be totally wrong .... it's all speculation.

Anthony
 
I would say about three years from a day of Epic X S35 release...

Also sure that after the release of Epic S35 RED Team would need one long vacation that could take even about one year or more...

Consider to the fact that RED it is a special kind of project involve a small core development team.

Also to mention that more than thousand engineers were hired in R & D.

At the end it's all funded with a private money.

No any strict time frame, not even strict rules, almost everything is open in a sense to achieve the goal and also subject to change...
 
I think the scope of the Epic-X project has changed. No one has expected they would be able to deliver some extraordinary features and performance. I think the perspective has changed in a way that the Epic-X is going to fulfill much of the FF hopes in terms of dynamic range and sensitivity. I think the focus will go into refining and unearthing more functionality and performance from the S35 sensor before the company will commit it's valuable resources into developing a FF35 brain. Just my guess, but this is what I would do and this is what (I guess) the vast majority of customers expect.

The FF35 brain helps you mainly with some extra sensitivity (not necessarily dynamic range). I can't think of any other justification. From what we have seen the X sensor is already very sensitive and leaves very little, if anything, to be desired.

Personally, I can see a 1000 new features that could be implemented post Epic-X release to enhance or utilise it's amazing capabilities before I think about FF35 brain. In fact, I would more welcome next generation S35 Monstro brain before FF35 brain.
 
Pawel Achtel said:
I think the scope of the Epic-X project has changed. No one has expected they would be able to deliver some extraordinary features and performance. I think the perspective has changed in a way that the Epic-X is going to fulfill much of the FF hopes in terms of dynamic range and sensitivity. I think the focus will go into refining and unearthing more functionality and performance from the S35 sensor before the company will commit it's valuable resources into developing a FF35 brain. Just my guess, but this is what I would do and this is what (I guess) the vast majority of customers expect.

The FF35 brain helps you mainly with some extra sensitivity (not necessarily dynamic range). I can't think of any other justification. From what we have seen the X sensor is already very sensitive and leaves very little, if anything, to be desired.

Personally, I can see a 1000 new features that could be implemented post Epic-X release to enhance or utilise it's amazing capabilities before I think about FF35 brain. In fact, I would more welcome next generation S35 Monstro brain before FF35 brain.
Click to expand...

Great points Pawel, and not to mention that most of the most popular
high-end Cine lens sets won't completely cover the FF Epic sensor.

Other than the Zeiss CP2's -- which are not "high-end" -- the only cine
lens set I'm aware of is the Arri/Zeiss set that was developed for the
Phantom 65 camera. And I can't find anymore information on it other
than it's rented by Abel Cine Tech.

So, from the time of the Epic release I think the top lens manufacturers
will need some time to design and manufacture some new sets that will
be ideal for this larger sensor.

Anthony
 
ONE DAY when FF35 cine cameras enter the main production stage then S35 cine lenses are supposed to be all "dead" or...!!!???
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
ONE DAY when FF35 cine cameras enter the main production stage then S35 cine lenses are supposed to be all "dead" or...!!!???
Click to expand...

LOL. I will defer to experts like David Mullen and Mitch Gross who both
said on another thread that S35 still has a very long healthy life to it!
 
Let's keep in mind that all the cameras, FF35, 645 and 617 are being developed parallel. So its not like they will finish S35, then Scarlet, and only they will they begin on the FF35 and hence take 2-3 years, and so on... No, its been under development for a few years now. Epic S35 is the big milestone. I have a feeling we will see the entire Epic line - FF35, 645 and 617 release in relatively quick succession, within 2-3 years.

3 months back, Jim did mention the final Epic in this line - 617 - will come by early 2012. Let's assume there are more disasters and it is delayed by more than a year to 2013. It's not that long off, you know. We may see FF35 as soon as late 2011 or early 2012 - less than a year after S35.

Let's see how it turns out.
 
The Monstro series was always slated a year behind M-X, I imagine that is still pretty much the case.
 
David Rasberry said:
The Monstro series was always slated a year behind M-X, I imagine that is still pretty much the case.
Click to expand...

A "RED year" has always been pretty lengthy...

I would supply myself for a similar RED-year to the ones we have seen with the R1, Scarlet and Epics.

That way you'd never be out of options...
 
I think it FF sensor will happen much sooner. The MX sensor has been out for some time and it seems that the upgrade of sensor design was one of the fastest parts to reach next generation. A while back Jim said they where already getting samples of Monstro. So once Epic is out, much like what happened when upgrading the Red to MX, I'm bettin the Monstro upgrade/version for Epic will happen faster then expected.
 
I doubt the FF sensor will go through the same delays as the S35 Epic. I imagine it's more analogous to shipping the RED One MX. They developed a new processor. I imagine this processor is pretty general purpose. Once they get the firmware straightened out it'll just be a matter of finishing the sensor. Developing the sensor controllers and then putting together enough horsepower to handle the data.

Remember that RED said it would be a "Small delay" to add more ASICs to Scarlet 2/3". If they are using the same ASICs in the FF35 then it's similar to adding more ASICs to the Scarlet 2/3" for HDRx.

Once we get one, I imagine they'll be able to scale up relatively easily. And we know the Monstro sensor program is still chugging away. It just needs a brain. RED front-loaded a lot of R&D I imagine for this project onto the Epic S35. Once they ship that--they can apply what they've developed to Scarlet 2/3", 2/3" Fixed, S35 and then move on to FF35.
 
Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock said:
The good thing is, you just put your brain up for sale and get the FF when its ready.

(Try taking that sentence out of context)
Click to expand...



...yes, got it. Full Frontal [lobotomy] is available. Doctor unsure, but willing to perform the procedure. Then I can put my brain up for sale.

Or should I try to arrange a sale before FF? Would I do best to sell now while I'm still alive or hold off closing the deal until I'm gone? Should I take out additional insurance on the brain in case something goes wrong during the FF procedure? I'm really confused, better go take my meeds.


OK, meds have kicked in... I don't think the Monstro-based cameras will take long to reach the market once Epic-X is released. The sensor is pretty much done, based on Jim's comments talking about seeing sensor slices and the cameras build on the same ASICs... Realistically, I bet the first Monstro cams are probably still several months to even a year away from Epic-X, but that is pure speculation. Or at least I hope so because my plan is to move from two Epic-X cameras to a Scarlet FF35 and an Epic 645...
 
One interesting topic for red beer talk is whether red could/would/should sell and ship ff35/645 epics before all epic-x trade-INS have shipped. I think Jim said epic-x production will get to about 700/ month which is still 7-9 months to build 6000 epic-xs and by that time they might have the ability to make ff35s so should they make and sell say 50-100 month of those concurrently?

100/month of those would bring in same revenue as 500 stage3 epic-xs for about the same amount of work and they could also legitimately sell them to new customers, since there is no waiting list for them. Pawel makes good points about s35 but this economic fact alone could influence red to expedite ff35 production.
 
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