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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How are Sound Devices PIX users triggering RECORD?

Evin Grant said:
Yes, the best res for full frame SDI is 4K 16:9
Click to expand...

Does the QuadHD 4K scale perfectly - as in could it serve as a lower quality backup for the 4K R3D (for both audio and video)?
 
Guys - there is of course, work arounds for triggering the PIX. Understood.

My issue was that this was not expected at the +$1000 premium SD (Sound Devices) charges for the "RED"-ized version of their excellent recorder. As a consumer, I would have at least liked to have KNOWN this before I dropped the extra Coin. At the very least, they underestimated the desire of many users who are seeking an ALTERNATE recording option to RED, not just a parallel recording methodology. You will note in every other camera-brand application, the PIX is designed (and rightly so) to REPLACE the on-board recorder. Now I know THAT goes against the grain of most EPIC users and I am not attempting to start another R3D vs the World standoff. I think my point may carry a bit more water amongst us Scarlet owners, but as stated in the OP, I sought the greater user-experience of Epic folk.

As to the "just hit the PIX record button" argument - yah, a no-brainer if you are in a sticks-or-studio situation, but I am a hand-held guy so I think we can all visualize the joy in either fumbling over our shoulder trying to push the "right" button by feel, or constantly lifting 16+ lbs of gear up and down off the shoulder to roll then re-mount for each shot. EFP guys will know exactly what I mean.

For the time-being I will do as others here suggest, just roll with the damn SSD in-slot, set to the crappiest RedCode setting to maximize roll-time, then just keep re-formatting the SSD when it fills up and stops. Damn.

To SD's immediate credit, they did (thanks Matt) detail a remote-trigger work around, which I will post below. And they have been back-and-forth with me on their fab SD User-Forum on the SD site too. I still think this is a sad oversight, but they are doing everything they can to help mitigate, so kudos. PIX users, and or potential PIX buyers may want to look at that thread on the SD Forum. Meanwhile I will hope for a more elegant solution either in the form of some sweet menu-option in my Scarlet that permits an SDI-flag w/o media present, or perhaps some sort of additional adapter cable from SD that "see" a GPI, etc. trigger off one of REDs other outputs. I can only hope.

Stu Aull
Alaska
 
Matt at SD's suggestion for a remote PIX Button to plug into LANC port on the PIX:

"Stu,

First, you might consider constructing yourself a remote roll cable. A simple illuminated SPST switch like this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3159591

a little cable and a 3/32" TRS and you are in business. Select Switch Momentary for Rec Start/Stop and you are in business.
The TRS is a 3/32" mini-plug. Just be careful to get the right one, because this is smaller than a standard 1/8" headphone plug.

Tip goes to one side of the switch, Ring goes to the LED positive terminal, sleeve is split to both the other side of the switch as well as
the LED negative terminal. The wiring diagram is in the back of the manual, but make sure you look at 1.05 manual, it was incorrect in earlier versions."

________________

PIX PDF of manual is available at
http://www.sounddevices.com/download/guides/pix_en.pdf

Stu Aull
Alaska
 
You need to do more research and make more informed buying decisions. All this informatin is available and not hard to find if you look. also manage your expectations better, the Pix recorders are not Red specific devices and are more likely to be used with F3s and DSLRs, and neither of those cameras will trigger the record. Take Mitch's advice and get a cheap LANC trigger and tape it to your hand held rig, problem solved.
 
I'm sorry, but I have to say that I am not in favor of the system sending a record flag with no media present. The possibility of thinking you are recording RedCode when you are not seems like an unnecessary bad idea.
 
stu aull said:
Guys - there is of course, work arounds for triggering the PIX. Understood.

My issue was that this was not expected at the +$1000 premium SD (Sound Devices) charges for the "RED"-ized version of their excellent recorder. As a consumer, I would have at least liked to have KNOWN this before I dropped the extra Coin. At the very least, they underestimated the desire of many users who are seeking an ALTERNATE recording option to RED, not just a parallel recording methodology. You will note in every other camera-brand application, the PIX is designed (and rightly so) to REPLACE the on-board recorder. Now I know THAT goes against the grain of most EPIC users and I am not attempting to start another R3D vs the World standoff. I think my point may carry a bit more water amongst us Scarlet owners, but as stated in the OP, I sought the greater user-experience of Epic folk.

As to the "just hit the PIX record button" argument - yah, a no-brainer if you are in a sticks-or-studio situation, but I am a hand-held guy so I think we can all visualize the joy in either fumbling over our shoulder trying to push the "right" button by feel, or constantly lifting 16+ lbs of gear up and down off the shoulder to roll then re-mount for each shot. EFP guys will know exactly what I mean.

For the time-being I will do as others here suggest, just roll with the damn SSD in-slot, set to the crappiest RedCode setting to maximize roll-time, then just keep re-formatting the SSD when it fills up and stops. Damn.

To SD's immediate credit, they did (thanks Matt) detail a remote-trigger work around, which I will post below. And they have been back-and-forth with me on their fab SD User-Forum on the SD site too. I still think this is a sad oversight, but they are doing everything they can to help mitigate, so kudos. PIX users, and or potential PIX buyers may want to look at that thread on the SD Forum. Meanwhile I will hope for a more elegant solution either in the form of some sweet menu-option in my Scarlet that permits an SDI-flag w/o media present, or perhaps some sort of additional adapter cable from SD that "see" a GPI, etc. trigger off one of REDs other outputs. I can only hope.

Stu Aull
Alaska
Click to expand...

It seems like the lanc trigger would be a better solution for you anyway as you could attach it to your handle.
The pix240 has a lot of other benefits over the 220 other than just the red trigger over SDI. Maybe you should sell that one and get a 220? I'll bet that you could get full price for it as they have a slight backorder.
 
stu aull said:
Guys - there is of course, work arounds for triggering the PIX. Understood.

My issue was that this was not expected at the +$1000 premium SD (Sound Devices) charges for the "RED"-ized version of their excellent recorder. As a consumer, I would have at least liked to have KNOWN this before I dropped the extra Coin. At the very least, they underestimated the desire of many users who are seeking an ALTERNATE recording option to RED, not just a parallel recording methodology. You will note in every other camera-brand application, the PIX is designed (and rightly so) to REPLACE the on-board recorder. Now I know THAT goes against the grain of most EPIC users and I am not attempting to start another R3D vs the World standoff. I think my point may carry a bit more water amongst us Scarlet owners, but as stated in the OP, I sought the greater user-experience of Epic folk.


Stu Aull
Alaska
Click to expand...

If you thought you paid $1000 premium for a feature that doesn't exist, you only have yourself to blame. Nowhere did SD advertise the feature you were expecting, neither did AJA, Qtake or the other dozen or so devices that use the SDI flag. Its been around on Red cameras for two years now and well documented.
 
We ran into the same snag on our Sony F900R, these cameras we never designed to send a roll signal without media. Be it REDMAGs or HDCAM tape, it is just not designed that way as they all have their own recording system built in. Sound Devices never marketed the PIX as a replacement for RED RAW, just as a complement to it. Makes dailies very easy. Why would you not want to roll RAW too? If the HDSDI output is enough for you, not for me but for you, why not just accept a second backup being made on the spot? Then you can use the roll button onboard and still rock out. Just erase the RED mags as your DIT verifies the PIX output.
 
stu aull said:
My issue was that this was not expected at the +$1000 premium SD (Sound Devices) charges for the "RED"-ized version of their excellent recorder. As a consumer, I would have at least liked to have KNOWN this before I dropped the extra Coin. At the very least, they underestimated the desire of many users who are seeking an ALTERNATE recording option to RED, not just a parallel recording methodology. You will note in every other camera-brand application, the PIX is designed (and rightly so) to REPLACE the on-board recorder. Now I know THAT goes against the grain of most EPIC users and I am not attempting to start another R3D vs the World standoff. I think my point may carry a bit more water amongst us Scarlet owners, but as stated in the OP, I sought the greater user-experience of Epic folk.
Click to expand...

I also bought a PIX240 because it has Hd-SDI in/out and Time-code option. I respect Sound Device since they make most sound recorders and mixers i've used. And when they make time-code enabled gear, they are really serious about it. It will work with Red Epic and Scarlet but it will also work with many other professional cameras with HD-SDI and HDMI. I never considered PIX220 since it doesn't have a SDI input. If you think you don't need a HD-SDI and Time-Code, just sell your PIX240 and buy either PIX220 or other HDMI recorders.
I think there are many buyers in this forum.
 
Greg M said:
If you thought you paid $1000 premium for a feature that doesn't exist, you only have yourself to blame. Nowhere did SD advertise the feature you were expecting, neither did AJA, Qtake or the other dozen or so devices that use the SDI flag. Its been around on Red cameras for two years now and well documented.
Click to expand...

Noted.
I "thought" I had researched it pretty thoroughly. Even took the 240 Ops Manual and read on my holidays prior to purchase. Obv my reading skills are debatable!
It was a question I never thought needed asking is my only "defense".
Content with spinning an SSD up as well to access the RECORD control thru the camera, as Michael and others suggest. LANC is a decent plan B. Will still secretly wish for "no-media SDI trigger" submenu option....
;)

Hopefully no harm done here with this discussion. Well, my rep notwithstanding...
If it informs someone else before pulling the trigger, I'll settle for that.
Thanks for the discussion Folks!

Stu Aull
Alaska
 
Owning and operating a professional camera system from any vendor requires support gear like media, power, etc. - all of which cost money.

In the case of some Scarlet owners, the RedMag SSD media is seen as too costly so they look at a unit like the PIX240 not just as a complimentary device that offers ready to edit media and 2 clean audio channels, but as a substitute. Not surprisingly, there are some speed bumps when one chooses a path other than what the devices were designed for. As Mitch suggested a LANC trigger should work a treat so its not like you can't accomplish your goal.

On the subject of the extra cost of the PIX 240 vs the 220, I believe there are more sophisticated time code options on the 240 as well as the far more robust (BNC type) SDI connector that justifies some of that difference. I also was under the impression that the cost differential was more like $600 than $1,000 but in any case I think SD has been quite aggressive in its pricing and IMHO the PIX 240 is great bang for the buck.

Cheers - #19
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Owning and operating a professional camera system from any vendor requires support gear like media, power, etc. - all of which cost money.

In the case of some Scarlet owners, the RedMag SSD media is seen as too costly so they look at a unit like the PIX240 not just as a complimentary device that offers ready to edit media and 2 clean audio channels, but as a substitute. Not surprisingly, there are some speed bumps when one chooses a path other than what the devices were designed for. As Mitch suggested a LANC trigger should work a treat so its not like you can't accomplish your goal.

On the subject of the extra cost of the PIX 240 vs the 220, I believe there are more sophisticated time code options on the 240 as well as the far more robust (BNC type) SDI connector that justifies some of that difference. I also was under the impression that the cost differential was more like $600 than $1,000 but in any case I think SD has been quite aggressive in its pricing and IMHO the PIX 240 is great bang for the buck.

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...

Agreed Blair.
Great respect for SD build quality, user interface and Tech support. Don't regret buying it at all, it is a great value. But felt it was important that at least potential buyers understand current limitations, find out what the work-arounds could be and hopefully encourage some creative thinking on making 2 great products be even more compatible.

Stu Aull
Alaska
 
All current limitations are those of how the RED camera functions, not the PIX. As such, I don't think that it is SD's place to state this. In the future RED may decide to add the option of switching off internal recording but allowing the SDI trigger (ARRI recently added this to the ALEXA) and RED will likely create a format mode which will eliminate any bars around the frame in the HD-SDI output. Neither of these is SD's issue.

Talk about a tempest in a teapot.
 
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