How about an "XLR Module"

[Joseph Hutson]

Due to the following little conversation and others like it...

Each brain sports a couple of balanced 1/8" ports on the front under the lens (or where the lens is to be attached)

Hopefully this will change for the fixed lens scarlet at least. If this camera is going to compete with even the HVX, it needs XLR inputs and someway to control the audio without going into the menus.

This will be essential for live event, documentary work, etc.

My concern is that the PRO IO module with full sized XLR inputs sells at a huge price when seen as a percentage of the fixed Scarlet base price, and with capabilities and ports not needed for basic documentary work. But at this price there are tradeoffs.

...RED, if you haven't already been cooking something up, would you consider making a basic module that only has full XLR inputs for those that wish to have the 2 XLR ports coming out of the side of the module buildup and not the two cables from the front of the brain?

Just a thought...

 

[Erik Bien]

... maybe with a couple of knobs to adjust audio gain? :torsten_violent-smi

 

[Joseph Hutson]

... maybe with a couple of knobs to adjust audio gain? :torsten_violent-smi

Well, Jarred did just make a good point...

Colin... Why don't you add the Pro I/O and the Brain price together, and then show me another camera within even a mile of that price that can even come close to what the Scarlet can....

:laugh:

 

[Petri Teittinen]

How come you didn't quote Jarred's post in its entirety, Joseph? Here, allow me:

Colin... Why don't you add the Pro I/O and the Brain price together, and then show me another camera within even a mile of that price that can even come close to what the Scarlet can do, and I will start actually listening to these bullshit complaints....

My point being that since people tend to praise RED for its unique approach to PR and customer relations, you should be prepared to take the bad with the good.

 

[Steven Caesare]

How come you didn't quote Jarred's post in its entirety, Joseph? Here, allow me:



My point being that since people tend to praise RED for its unique approach to PR and customer relations, you should be prepared to take the bad with the good.

Then you also need to post the comment he was replying to:

Exactly. To suggest that you need to spend between $1750 and $2950 to get XLRs on a $4500 camera is crazy.

I'd say "crazy" and "BS" match tone pretty well.

-sc

 

[Jay Gannon]

Complaining about the amount your getting in a 4500 dollar camera compared to the competition is just silly.

 

[Lee Saxon]

Complaining about the amount your getting in a 4500 dollar camera compared to the competition is just silly.

We're not. We're confused about why, given all that they're able to give us for 4500, why it costs SO much more just to add some XLR ports or a little LCD or a module to plug batteries into [and, based on R1, the batteries themselves] or a module to plug SSDs into [the price of the SSD itself is pretty fair though].

Seems like a pretty reasonable thing to be confused about.

 

[Colin Sheldon]

Complaining about the amount your getting in a 4500 dollar camera compared to the competition is just silly.

My point was also that someone is going to make a killing off of 1/8 -> XLR adapters... Why not Red? Why not make a nice, integrated module that only has two XLRs and some control knobs?

The fixed scarlet already has HDMI out, a lot of people won't need HDSDI.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

who is to know what they have in production and don't want to release yet, or maybe they don't want some horrible bottleneck (crappy third party 1/8 to XLR) to make their brilliant cam sound like shit. If you want xlr get a separate recorder, or buy a handycam style camcorder with all the ports you want and loads of compromises. If you were really going for it you should at least get the base, you really wanna waste room with a large module just for xlr, and then how will others stack behind it without it having too much wasted space? and where was this suggestion two years ago? honestly these are weak points against it, but the points for it are very weak as well at this point in development. seems to me like they don't feel they have any reason to make it anytime soon so I suggest you save your breath and start thinking about how you ARE going to record audio.

 

[Andy Jarosz]

Look,

Assuming RED continues as they have with third party manufacturers, this would be a (relatively) simple module to build.

I think RED is on the right track as they are, get the pro stuff and the modularity issues out of the way first, then go in for the cheaper "consumer" based items.

 

[Colin Sheldon]

who is to know what they have in production and don't want to release yet, or maybe they don't want some horrible bottleneck (crappy third party 1/8 to XLR) to make their brilliant cam sound like shit. If you want xlr get a separate recorder, or buy a handycam style camcorder with all the ports you want and loads of compromises. If you were really going for it you should at least get the base, you really wanna waste room with a large module just for xlr, and then how will others stack behind it without it having too much wasted space? and where was this suggestion two years ago? honestly these are weak points against it, but the points for it are very weak as well at this point in development. seems to me like they don't feel they have any reason to make it anytime soon so I suggest you save your breath and start thinking about how you ARE going to record audio.

The point is that there already are 3rd party, crappy adapters. There is nothing that can be done to stop that. Beachtek, or Element Technica, or Air Sea Land, or someone else will make a custom one for scarlet.

The question here, is whether or not there is enough interest for Red to develop a low end, cheap, XLR only module. It has been stated many times that if there is a demand, Red is willing to consider it.

I'm confused why it's ok to talk about other modules, but ironically no one can make a "sound" regarding different XLR options.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

you can i believe that is what is happening here. it's just there hasn't been many good arguments from the way I see it, but we all have different needs. I figure why waste your time, you have made your point they have read it and will implement it or they won't.

 

[Thomas Koch]

The option of XLR to mini-TRS (aka 1/8" balanced mini) cable is a very viable option as well. It's just a connector. It's not like it's a stereo crap input.

I agree XLR is much more robust, but the ability to shoot with professional audio without the added module is something that will work in some situations.

I'll have both in my kit.

 

[Juhan Malmstein]

This thread is the case of: "you are giving me an incredible deal on an amazing piece of equipment, but I'm really disappointed that you won't give me even more"

you should check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Sounds like so much whining to me... and trying to tell some very savvy business and technical people that you know better.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Sounds like so much whining to me... and trying to tell some very savvy business and technical people that you know better.

Complaining about the amount your getting in a 4500 dollar camera compared to the competition is just silly.

Look, I get that 1/8 is probably here to stay and it doesn't bother me that much to workaround, but it isn't quite fair to characterize those who do care as hubristic, silly whiners. Turn it around - what current close to $4500 or greater video camera DOESN'T have XLRs?

 

[Ameer Azari]

This thread is the case of: "you are giving me an incredible deal on an amazing piece of equipment, but I'm really disappointed that you won't give me even more"

you should check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

That's simply nonsense. The OP isn't asking for more, he's asking for less.

RED are offering a Pro - I/O module...That's great for people who want to use ALL the features of the Pro - I/O Module, but for those of us who just wanna whack an NTG-3 onto a Scarlet, it would be really nice to have an option to do so.

I for one don't mind using a 1/8" to XLR adapter, but I'd be happier buying such an adapter/module from RED itself, in the same way that I'd rather buy a RED CF card than a Sandisk one.

 

[Ameer Azari]

Look, I get that 1/8 is probably here to stay and it doesn't bother me that much to workaround, but it isn't quite fair to characterize those who do care as hubristic, silly whiners. Turn it around - what current close to $4500 or greater video camera DOESN'T have XLRs?

Exactly.

 

[Steven Caesare]

Look, I get that 1/8 is probably here to stay and it doesn't bother me that much to workaround, but it isn't quite fair to characterize those who do care as hubristic, silly whiners. Turn it around - what current close to $4500 or greater video camera DOESN'T have XLRs?

"What current close to $4500 or greater video camera [that shoots 3k RAW to conboard storage in an incredibly small package with high-quality optics included] DOESN'T have XLRs?"

There, I fixed that for ya.

-sc

 

[Michael Olsen]

"What current close to $4500 or greater video camera [that shoots 3k RAW to conboard storage in an incredibly small package with high-quality optics included] DOESN'T have XLRs?"

There, I fixed that for ya.

-sc

I think the core of this issue is that the fixed Scarlet is giving us a whole lot in the base package in terms of image quality. After all, it's pretty much just the brain. But the price point can create some interesting issues since it begins to become attractive to prosumers who may not understand the nature of some of the tradeoffs they have to make. For instance...

The Canon XH-A1 costs $4000. I know of at least three people who love these cameras for small productions. The media costs about $15 and is an industry standard format. The on camera audio is more or less industry standard as it has two XLR inputs, phantom power, and physical level adjustment. There is a simple and industry standard format method for taking footage right off the camera onto a computer for editing. It has a 20x optical zoom. It has an industry standard ergonomic format for handheld operation. And it delivers a perfectly fine web video.

Now, if I introduced these same couple of people to the fixed Scarlet, they would be blown away by some of the features - 120 fps, a solid beautiful 3K, touch autofocus, and a crazy nice lens.

But they would also have some questions and some worries.

"My HDV tapes cost $15 at Walmart. I have to spend $XXX on just one CF card for this camera? And I can't buy them anywhere except from RED? What happens if I'm on a shoot and one gets lost or damaged? What do I do for deliverables at the end of the day? That's too expensive to leave behind."

"The camera doesn't have XLR mics? That's weird...all the cameras I've shot on do. But I can buy an adapter right? Or one of those modules - woah $XXXX is a lot to spend just for XLR inputs. And how am I supposed to adjust levels...in a menu? On the same same screen I'm also monitoring video?"

"So to get the footage off my camera I need to use one of these card readers...which can cost $XXX? Wow. Okay. And then I need to take several hours transforming my footage into an editiable format? That's a lot of work..."

"So the zoom is 8X? That's not a whole lot...I need to get in closer. What's? abberation? Okay, so its a really nice lens, but I still need more zoom. And how do I hold this? Like a DSLR? Hahaha...oh? I do..."

I know this sounds whiny, annoying, and some people would probably say that it is disrespectful of RED and what they are doing and that I'm missing the point. But I really do feel there is a small army of people out there who would say virtually all of the above if pressed to make a business decision about buying into a RED.

My point, I suppose, is four-fold.

1. Not everyone is a well-paid or well-funded professional and even what are considered little add-ons around here would look like a major payout to them.

2. RED isn't industry standard. For a lot of people, that's fine. I personally prefer it because I think sticking to standards just because they are standards is a stupid idea. But there are people who see things that aren't industry standard as either unprofessional or too much of a bother to learn.

3. (I believe) RED is a professional digital cinema camera first and formost. And I believe it will fit that role better than any other options. I do believe that this focus provides some issues - it leaves holes for people like documentary filmmakers or for ENG filmmakers or for small "indie" video companies which shoot small corporate videos or music videos and don't have much of a budget at all. Modules can fill some of these holes, but at an additional monetary cost.

4. RED isn't for everyone. Nothing is, but air and water. And people still argue over those ("They only have Perrier? I always drink VOSS.") There are simply some people for whom RED just won't work. And while that still feels a bit off because I think RED is so fantastic and offers so much possibility, it's just the way of life.