Hours of Operation - why does it matter?

[Raji Barbir]

I've tried and tried to research this and can't seem to find any relevant, useful information.

Why do hours of operation matter on a RED?

I'm currently in the market for a RED Epic MX, and while I'm finding a bunch of them with surprisingly low hours of operation (300 hours or much less), I'm not sure why (or if) I should stay away from models with a higher count for hours of operation. I've seen people say that the life of the camera depends on how well the camera was treated, but I'm not understanding what fails or becomes a problem in a RED camera after X number of hours of operation.

With photo cameras, eventually the shutter actuation fails, and replacement is too expensive for what the camera is worth. What starts to go wrong on a RED? At what number of hours on a RED brain should I start being weary?

Thanks!

 

[Bob Gundu]

You're right, it doesn't matter. If anything, one with more hours could mean it's a camera with all the kinks worked out!

 

[Robert Hart]

An hours meter can only be a general indictor. Exterior condition can be misleading as a camera may have had several fixes over time and be sound internally. Then again the intervention of the human hand rummaging around in its guts can equally introduce a fault, a well documented issue in aviation.

Sony had a good thing with their older tape cameras which informed you how many total hours versus how many load-unloads. A camera that has low hours but many times switched on and off, could be in potentially worse condition due to thermal cycles and consequent mechanical stress on electrical joints and conductors. It's been a longtanding debate on computers and of course the RED is essentially a computer.

 

[Raji Barbir]

An hours meter can only be a general indictor. Exterior condition can be misleading as a camera may have had several fixes over time and be sound internally. Then again the intervention of the human hand rummaging around in its guts can equally introduce a fault, a well documented issue in aviation.

Sony had a good thing with their older tape cameras which informed you how many total hours versus how many load-unloads. A camera that has low hours but many times switched on and off, could be in potentially worse condition due to thermal cycles and consequent mechanical stress on electrical joints and conductors. It's been a longtanding debate on computers and of course the RED is essentially a computer.

It sounds like a total guessing game then... :/

I had to Google what the guts of a RED might look like, and it just looks like a bunch of circuit boards where there must be a CPU somewhere. Plus the sensor. What kind of faults can present themselves in a RED?

 

[Robert Hart]

I think a general rule of thumb is that with age, you run the risk of individual electronic components simply reaching end of assured life. Once upon a time, there was a notion around that the greatest periods of failure risk were in the first 50 hours of operation, then in the period beyond 500 hours of operation.

Components which deal with high energies like capacitors, resistors and power regulators seem to be vulnerable. I understand that the modern RED imager sensor chip also incorporates much of the processing and may even be the CPU as such. Other folk can correct me here. CPUs themselves generate much heat and must be actively cooled.

Earlier developments of the RED camera family had issues with heat management but with time and evolution, these things are generally sorted. Heat will shorten the life of electronic components. What climate a pre-owned camera operated in may have influenced its life. However a camera which has endured through its entire lifetime hot indoors studio environments may also be in serious trouble by the time it is moved on.

A low-hours camera could be a good buy. The relative affordability of the RED cameras and sheer number turned loose into the world means that at least some owners will have bought them at an expensive hobby level and not operated them much. Then again, a low hours camera on-sold from an equipment pool could be the known dog that nobody wanted to take out on a job and avoided like the plague.

Such cameras might have had a single fault which might have been hard to locate, was eventually fixed but its reputation tarnished. Some operators do write down serial numbers of things that bite them and avoid the same item on subsequent rentals.

My personal preference would be for a camera at a good price within the 100-300 hours range. If the outer body is just worn or scuffed to bare metal on corners does not concern me greatly. One that has any deep nicks or gouges is another matter as this suggests some trauma which may have been put right but may have affected other parts and shortened their workng life.

Assume that battery connections may have become potentially faulty, especially if there is a lot of burnishing on the rubbing surfaces where the battery body contacts the dock. If the operator has been unusually energetic and had a habit of banging heavy batteries into place, then there may be physical issues within the camera body.

Custom or non-genuine electrical cables within a used kit, may indicate past adaptation or experimentation by an owner. Unusual usage may shorten a camera's life and may have caused a past repair job.


Please take more notice of other responders versus my comments.

 

[Robert Hart]

I should perhaps disclose, that I am a SI2K owner-operator not a RED owner. That potentilly makes me a subversive.

The camera I have was an ex-demo and I am the third owner. One or two issues emerged. It was apparent that people had been looking around inside at some point, left loosened fasteners and the like. Fortunately I have reasonable facility at fixing things, resolved them all to my satisfaction and still to this day have the camera.

I did have the advantage of having crewed with the particular camera and was witness to some of its history.

 

[Raji Barbir]

wow, Robert this is HUGELY helpful! Thank you! I hope this resource comes in handy for future people interested in getting into the RED ecosystem (though what you've provided is certainly applicable to all platforms).

 

[Brian Merlen]

I'd seriously consider dsmc2 products instead, they are real cheap if you get scarlet w or Raven with similar fps to epic mx

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hours on the camera doesn't mean a thing. It just shows you how many hours it's been powered on. And there's a big difference between a camera with 1000 hours that's always been meticulously cared for and only used in a private studio vs. one with 200 hours that has been drug through the Arizona desert and scorching heat and sprinkled with dirt. I'm with Bob on this one, a camera with a lot of hours on it probably has all the kinks worked out. The real consideration is how the camera has been cared for and used. Not how many hours it has been powered on. When buying a used RED, I highly recommend the camera be sent to RED for evaluation and any needed service before purchasing it. Once everything checks out, RED even offers additional warranty options, but they're kinda expensive.

 

[Raji Barbir]

I'd seriously consider dsmc2 products instead, they are real cheap if you get scarlet w or Raven with similar fps to epic mx

I was on the verge of getting a Raven, but honestly the small sensor size was the killer for me. That's when I switched to looking for a used Epic instead.

 

[Raji Barbir]

Hours on the camera doesn't mean a thing. It just shows you how many hours it's been powered on. And there's a big difference between a camera with 1000 hours that's always been meticulously cared for and only used in a private studio vs. one with 200 hours that has been drug through the Arizona desert and scorching heat and sprinkled with dirt. I'm with Bob on this one, a camera with a lot of hours on it probably has all the kinks worked out. The real consideration is how the camera has been cared for and used. Not how many hours it has been powered on. When buying a used RED, I highly recommend the camera be sent to RED for evaluation and any needed service before purchasing it. Once everything checks out, RED even offers additional warranty options, but they're kinda expensive.

Thanks Jeff. It does still come down to blind luck and trust in a stranger. I have no idea looking at an Epic with 1000 hours if it was well taken care of or not. But... Is there a way to find out service history if I know the serial number of the camera? That wouldn't necessarily help, I have no idea. I've never purchased a RED, so I'm not even sure what kind of access to customer service (if any) I would be given.

 

[Shane Kelly]

FYI, I sold my epic recently with 1650 hours on it. The buyer and I split the evaluation cost from red and it passed with a clean bill of health. This gave both the buyer and myself peace of mind. Just pay for this evaluation on any camera that you are considering and don't worry about the hours. IMO the cameras usually fail early on so in a way the longer hours show that it has operated satisfactorily for a long time.