Hopefully I don't get in trouble for this!

[Finner]

Okay I am a big fan of Red and an early owner. I highly respect what has been built in such a short time by Red and am excitingly awaiting arrival of my epic. However I find something a little off and I can no longer hold it in!

Red announces they are working on a new sensor "Red Dragon" and a bunch of people go gaga nuts and add fuel to the personification that Red is just a camera company supported by fan boys. Wow really your working on a new sensor. What a huge announcement. It's like GM calling a press conference to say that they are working on a new car but can't give any details.

Of course Red is working on new sensors just as all the other camera companies are working on new sensors; or at least they should be if they want to stay in business. With the Japan tragedy all the camera companies are facing huge issues, I believe the issues sony and panasonic have are far more grave in fact I heard sonys HD tape manufacturing company is under water right now so a lot of people are completely screwed with that for what will be a long time. So I understand that there are likely things Red wanted to announce but couldn't due to the problems. The thing is I see little advantage in making an announcement just to make an announcement.

I love Red and continue to chose it over other options almost exclusively. I just don't see announcements like this helping enhance it's image. I could be way off base with my thoughts and there could be a lot of things I am not seeing here so please feel free to help me understand.

I don't disrespect Red in any way I just don't understand this.

 

[Jannard]

Finner... the news isn't just that we are developing a new sensor, it is that the RED Dragon sensor is an upgrade to EPIC-M and EPIC-X owners instead of having to buy a new brain. That seemed significant to us as people contemplate whether or not to invest in the EPIC system.

Jim

Okay I am a big fan of Red and an early owner. I highly respect what has been built in such a short time by Red and am excitingly awaiting arrival of my epic. However I find something a little off and I can no longer hold it in!

Red announces they are working on a new sensor "Red Dragon" and a bunch of people go gaga nuts and add fuel to the personification that Red is just a camera company supported by fan boys. Wow really your working on a new sensor. What a huge announcement. It's like GM calling a press conference to say that they are working on a new car but can't give any details.

Of course Red is working on new sensors just as all the other camera companies are working on new sensors; or at least they should be if they want to stay in business. With the Japan tragedy all the camera companies are facing huge issues, I believe the issues sony and panasonic have are far more grave in fact I heard sonys HD tape manufacturing company is under water right now so a lot of people are completely screwed with that for what will be a long time.

I love Red and continue to chose it over other options almost exclusively. I just don't see announcements like this helping enhance it's image. I could be way off base with my thoughts and there could be a lot of things I am not seeing here so please feel free to help me understand.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

They way I see it, its not about the announcement of a new sensor in the works, that alone wil be no worty of any news, but a given, as oyu mentioned...

However the fact that now we are no longer needing to buy a NEW BRAIN to go FF, that is the news to me!!

Meaning that if any of us M owners and or future Epic X owners, decide to go FF we don't have to do anything else then send
in our Epic and get the sensor upgraded as we all did with the R1's for M swap to MX.


This is what the news is all about, I list I think so...

EDIT: Jim was first even so at the same exact minute of the hour, he he.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Well, I agree with a lot of that. For me, there was no surprise in that RED is working on a new sensor -- duh! We all knew about Monstro and future sensor program, etc..

The big deal here is that we have all been told our sensors in the new DSMC brains are not upgradeable, however the RED Dragon will be offered as an upgrade to Epic-M and Epic-X. Nice surprise. Of course, we'll have to see what all the details are when the time comes. I'm still curious about FF35 and 645 model Epic cameras and if they're close in release to RED Dragon, then it becomes a question of whether or not to upgrade the Epic-X sensor or to sell that brain and upgrade to the new on with larger sensor, presumably more processing and abilities, etc.. Time will tell.

I'm sure that planned announcements for NAB changed drastically for RED (and other manufacturers), given the tragic events in Japan.

EDIT> Hah, seems Jim and Ketch must have clicked "post" about the same time I clicked "reply".

 

[Bill Goehring]

Red announces they are working on a new sensor "Red Dragon" and a bunch of people go gaga nuts and add fuel to the personification that Red is just a camera company supported by fan boys. Wow really your working on a new sensor. What a huge announcement.

Finner, I think the real announcement here is not that there is a new sensor coming. Like you said, that's taken for granted. The real announcement was that the Epic-X and -M would be sensor-upgradable to Red Dragon in keeping with their obsolescence philosophy. Previous to this announcement, there was no word on whether the Epic would be upgradable without buying a new "brain."

EDIT: Ha, ha. a little slow on the draw...

 

[Jannard]

The exact size and specs of the sensor have not been announced...

Jim

 

[Finner]

Finner... the news isn't just that we are developing a new sensor, it is that the RED Dragon sensor is an upgrade to EPIC-M and EPIC-X owners instead of having to buy a new brain. That seemed significant to us as people contemplate whether or not to invest in the EPIC system.

Jim

I guess I just felt that everyone would just see it as the typical next move for Red. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Red had more then a few sensor and hardware upgrades throughout the life of the Epic; It's kinda the way Red works and what makes the company so great. That said I can see how many may not be able to see that logical next step and where the announcement would be necessary.

It was a pleasure seeing the Red booth at NAB this year and congrats to Kelly and Brent.

cheers
Daren

 

[Adam C Lubkin]

For me, the Dragon path announcement was the highlight of NAB (besides meeting and reuniting with all the great people - including you, Daren). It WAS a big, welcome surprise to me, because Red had very specifically spelled out, many times, that the sensor would NOT be upgradable and that upgrading would mean buying a new brain. Additionally, the Monstro was on track to come along maybe next year and supersede the S35 Epic as the flagship model. Now I can rest in peace knowing that my Epics will be the leading model for quite some time to come (for the modest cost of a sensor upgrade at some point). Given that the Epics represent quite a financial investment, this gives me a lot more time for ROI, and a lot longer before I have to start thinking about ponying up for the next model.

Of course it also means gaining the advantages that Monstro/Dragon brings, but it's hard to start thinking about that already given that Epic is so kick-ass.

 

[Greg M]

I just don't see announcements like this helping enhance it's image.

Finner,
In my 25 years of owning cameras with sensors, I have never been offered a sensor upgrade to extend the life of my camera. I personally find this news significant. How could this not help enhance Red's image?

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I am left sitting here wondering why JVC and Canon have not offered to upgrade my cameras... :huh:

 

[James Brundige]

I am left sitting here wondering why JVC and Canon have not offered to upgrade my cameras... :huh:

Or Sony or Arri or ......

Red is the only company to offer hardware upgrades. That is a big deal, and will be a significant boost to Epic longevity. Until this announcement, I was considering putting off my Epic purchase to wait for the next gen. Now I can proceed with confidence.

Finner, this time you don't know best

 

[Finner]

I get what you guys are saying but the thing is if you understand the first thing about Red it is that they allow cameras to be upgradeable or offer trade in options; remember "Obsolescence Obsolete". When myself and many others pre-ordered our reds many years ago this was one of the key things that attracted over 1000 orders. So unless people have been under a rock for 6 years I don't know why they would not already know this or be surprised by it

 

[Tony Lorentzen]

Finner... the news isn't just that we are developing a new sensor, it is that the RED Dragon sensor is an upgrade to EPIC-M and EPIC-X owners instead of having to buy a new brain. That seemed significant to us as people contemplate whether or not to invest in the EPIC system.

I was really underwhelmed about the whole thing too, until I had a little time to let it sink in. I was expecting more because I'm getting used to RED announcing crazy cool stuff. Having had a few days to think about it (and visited the booth a few more times) the magnitude of the announcement has finally hit me and I would say that this is pretty effin' great for those of us that aren't able to ROI out equipment in two weeks. It's like an early christmas present, really. Thanks Santa Jim ;-)

 

[Rob Castiglione]

Definitely excited about the sensor upgrade. It certainly was a surprise to me. What did people expect - that Red was launching a mission to Mars?

 

[James Brundige]

I get what you guys are saying but the thing is if you understand the first thing about Red it is that they allow cameras to be upgradeable or offer trade in options; remember "Obsolescence Obsolete". When myself and many others pre-ordered our reds many years ago this was one of the key things that attracted over 1000 orders. So unless people have been under a rock for 6 years I don't know why they would not already know this or be surprised by it

It was stated at some point that sensor upgrades starting with Epic would require purchasing a new brain. I noticed that at the time because it did run a little against the "obsolescence obsolete" theme, and I'm relieved that further sensor upgrades are now official policy. I was with you on that pre-order, and pleased to see that faith is still well deserved.

 

[paulherrin]

I am left sitting here wondering why JVC and Canon have not offered to upgrade my cameras... :huh:

are you really wondering that?

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

No - this is big - really big - one of the RED team said today that Monstro is as big or bigger an upgrade to Epic as MX was to the RED ONE. Think about that - MX wasn't a small upgrade - it was a quantum leap. Being able to participate in the next quantum leap without re-purchasing a new brain is a big deal. A really big deal on a number of fronts - the new technology doesn't degrade the previous technology because it's now replaceable, instead of obsoleted. New camera brains don't instantaneously knock down the price point of the previous brains.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

The way I read the announcement was that:
1. there will be relatively inexpensive upgrade path for the Epic brain
2. physical dimensions of the brain won't change, which is huge piece of information for people designing underwater housings and accessories
3. it is almost certain that higher dynamic range will be available in the Monstro line
4. it is highly likely there will be a sensor in FF35 size that will fit in the Epic body

Of course, nothing certain, but a pretty good hint on a range of important information that let's you think and plan ahead...I personally welcomed this announcement and felt it was fairly significant.

 

[Jannard]

The exact size and specs for The RED Dragon sensor have not been released.

Jim

 

[Pawel Achtel]

The exact size and specs for The RED Dragon sensor have not been released.

Jim

hehehe, yes, I know, but based on past history of RED we can all make an educated guess and anticipate something significant, right?