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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Holiday Update + IPP2 Preview Build

I definitely see more highlight detail preserved when using RWG/Log3G10, which is really exciting. I'll need to test a bit more to see how far it can be pushed.

Is anyone else not able to get the Look Curve? I'm using E-W footage (shot with the original firmware) and in RCX-Pro it says "Look : Curve -- Not Available"
 
Todd G. Peterson said:
I definitely see more highlight detail preserved when using RWG/Log3G10, which is really exciting. I'll need to test a bit more to see how far it can be pushed.

Is anyone else not able to get the Look Curve? I'm using E-W footage (shot with the original firmware) and in RCX-Pro it says "Look : Curve -- Not Available"
Click to expand...

Great you're seeing the highlight detail!

IPP2 doesn't support the old look curves from the original image processing. As I moved around the order of operations, some things were just in the wrong place and other things were redundant. Remember this is a preview of IPP2 running on mostly an original image processing GUI, so we just disabled things that were not supported in the new system and warn the user accordingly. This will make more sense when you see the full IPP2 implementation and read on the detailed stages of the new processing. In the meantime, I'll be here to explain.

Graeme
 
The nice thing about IPP2 is that the pieline can be split in part, so you can do the raw development to RWG/Log3G10, grade in a 3rd party app, and then apply the rest of the IPP2 pipeline as a 3D cube LUT to get the end result.

Graeme
 
If the app uses the SDK to allow decode to RWG/Log3G10 you can use IPP2 via the method I describe above.

Graeme
 
Fantastic Graeme.

So presumably that final LUT part is the post-grading preferred colourspace transform?

Great work and it will be nice to return to the Red ecosystem after a couple of years away as this is rolled out.
 
Ben Scott said:
Fantastic Graeme.

So presumably that final LUT part is the post-grading preferred colourspace transform?

Great work and it will be nice to return to the Red ecosystem after a couple of years away as this is rolled out.
Click to expand...

Yes! In RC-X it'll get done with math, and that math can be boiled into a 3D Cube for use in a variety of post workflows. That's also how we're doing the preview IPP2 in camera ahead of the full IPP2 implementation. This method of working gives immense flexibility and because RWG and Log3G10 are documented, you can also build your own ways of doing things on top of them, or use the IPP2 transforms as you see fit.

Graeme
 
Is IPP1's RWG/Log3G10 export to, say, dpx different than IPP2's RWG/Log3G10? I mean the end result.
 
Jarred, don't be so hard on yourself regarding Raven. You single handedly gave people like myself a tool that vastly improved the quality of the images they capture. I was easily 5 years out from being able to pull the trigger on a Red package of any kind (sans maybe a used S-MX) when you announced Raven. It changed the game for me and opened up creative pathways I was really struggling to hit with my Sony/O7Q setup. Unfortunately, anyone griping about delay really should have tried to get an order in before 11/2015. People have been hoping for an affordable Red since the Scarlet 3K was in the works and it should come as no surprise to anyone that Raven sold as quickly as it did. Not trying to be a jerk, just a little baffled at a lot of the complaining on the Raven FB forum and other boards. Definitely generous of you to open up that S-W upgrade path again. People will figure it out. Beyond amped on the IPP2 update. Keep up the phenomenal work.
 
Graeme Nattress said:
The nice thing about IPP2 is that the pieline can be split in part, so you can do the raw development to RWG/Log3G10, grade in a 3rd party app, and then apply the rest of the IPP2 pipeline as a 3D cube LUT to get the end result.

Graeme
Click to expand...

This is really interesting. I'm wondering how much round tripping there will be between RCX-Pro and editing and grading apps with the pipeline. Based on Jarred's comments, it sounds like there will be native support in other apps end of Jan, but will we need to return to RCX-Pro to apply a final grade?
 
One other question. I'm not conficen reading the luminosity curve, but if I'm looking at it correctly the log (highlight) curve is about 10 stops above mid-gray (which you set around 18%) and the gamma curve under mid gray is about 7.5 stops, so it's a 17.5 stop range to cover the camera RGB from the sensor?
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Yes! In RC-X it'll get done with math, and that math can be boiled into a 3D Cube for use in a variety of post workflows. That's also how we're doing the preview IPP2 in camera ahead of the full IPP2 implementation. This method of working gives immense flexibility and because RWG and Log3G10 are documented, you can also build your own ways of doing things on top of them, or use the IPP2 transforms as you see fit.

Graeme
Click to expand...

Any Intel on the exposure tool working with this pipeline applied in camera? I use the exposure tool all the time, and it doesn't work with RWG/LG10/IPP2
 
Šabović Adis;1697108 said:
Is IPP1's RWG/Log3G10 export to, say, dpx different than IPP2's RWG/Log3G10? I mean the end result.
Click to expand...

The end result from either is substantially the same. The definition of the RWG space and Log3G10 curve are identical in both cases. There's some very small amount of extra smooth gamut clamping in the IPP2 version that I couldn't fit in the original pipeline, but that's about it.

Graeme
 
Todd G. Peterson said:
One other question. I'm not conficen reading the luminosity curve, but if I'm looking at it correctly the log (highlight) curve is about 10 stops above mid-gray (which you set around 18%) and the gamma curve under mid gray is about 7.5 stops, so it's a 17.5 stop range to cover the camera RGB from the sensor?
Click to expand...

Log3G10 has 10 stops above mid grey and below mid grey is just limited by the precision of container format. Typical Cineon has a bit over 6 stops above mid grey.

Graeme
 
Chris McKechnie said:
Any Intel on the exposure tool working with this pipeline applied in camera? I use the exposure tool all the time, and it doesn't work with RWG/LG10/IPP2
Click to expand...

I am looking at how the in-camera implementation of IPP2 works with the histogram and other exposure tools.

Graeme
 
Todd G. Peterson said:
This is really interesting. I'm wondering how much round tripping there will be between RCX-Pro and editing and grading apps with the pipeline. Based on Jarred's comments, it sounds like there will be native support in other apps end of Jan, but will we need to return to RCX-Pro to apply a final grade?
Click to expand...

I don't think you'll be round-tripping. The most likely workflow is that you'll use a LUT to do the final stage of processing in your grading app. We've tested that workflow extensively and it's producing quick and excellent results. Of course, you will be able to do everything in REDCine-X should you want.

Graeme
 
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