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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Here comes the RED Scarlet,Epic, Dragon Rip-OFFS

The cheap knockoffs are it's own thing.

For Red I wouldn't get worried about them as far as competition. You're only as good as the team you have surrounded around you, and the support system. I'm sure Jarred & co. are just as hungry as they've always been, and there are some really good people working at RDC.

Dragon with the new OLPF, fan system, Motion Mount, and colour science is a brand new camera (again). It creates a lot of separation from the so-called competition in this thread...but really it's ARRI who are the competition -although we have people on both sides here at reduser who will argue for and against/merits vs. shortcomings.

From where I'm at, I welcome Dragon at the price point to have a mature, professional camera system. Is it short-sighted to not want to cater to the low end market (as in 4K for 4K or 6K for 6K type of thing)? Perhaps, and perhaps Red feels that market is important too.

Part of the problem with having to defend Red is the fact some people have had the funds to buy an R1 or Scarlet or Epic and didn't know what they were doing, and called themselves whatever title they felt, rather than having earned them. This introduced all kinds of rumours and threads to refute. Yes there were valid problems but as we have seen Jarred's taken a leadership position and corrected them...and likely nobody at Red is content to sit idle.
 
http://www.kinefinity.com/product-category/kineraw-cameras/?lang=en

Here is the price sheet guys, enjoy...

I contacted them to request a demo or rental...see if they get back to me so we can have a shoot out of sorts! settle this image quality thing once and for all and see where the cards fall! For these prices I expect something with black suns, moire, banding, and anything else I can think of lol! so if it works and looks good kudos to them for it, but I bet there has to be a catch to it like with all the cheaper 4k offerings thus far on the market

between the look of the camera body and the trade in program on the sensors if i were red i'd be a tad bummed on how similar they seem to be as far as emulating red at almost every turn for pennies on the dollar no less via chinese pricing disparity...

it almost seems unreal that all our products come from people essentially a notch above slave labor for almost nothing and ends up marked up like thousands fold by the time it gets here, a true tragedy for the third world and up coming super powers. I can't even imagine how hard it is for an american company to compete against a chinese company when it comes to labor costs...

maybe red should step up the buy an american camera marketing? as successful as arri is along with other german brands it does bother me somewhat to buy into their stuff when my ancestors were essentially slaughtered in WW2 and by sheer fate I am even here at all when half my family died in the camps. Buying into german products just kind of is a no go for me almost when I think about it, the roll off and glass be damned lol! no seriously i just can't afford them lmfao so i need to think of fanciful ways to rationalize not selling my kidney for an alexa
 
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The cameras where introduces over a year ago at NAB 2013.
The can be bought for some time now and have been tested in Germany by the online service film-tv-video.de last July. LINK
They we're quite happy with it, especially for the price.

RED did not invent DNG or the cineform codec afaik.
Cineform was originally designed in 2002 (12 years already, I'm getting old) by David Taylor, David Newman and Brian Schunck for 'compressed Digital Intermediate workflows for film or television applications using HD or higher resolution media' according to Wikipedia.

Does that mean anything 'lawsuit' wise?
a) I don't know b) I don't care

Right now every camera company is jumping onto the ProRes train. Sony, Panasonic, Blackmagic.
My feeling is that RED is loosing some ground here. But that's just my opinion.
I might be wrong here, but (see answer b above)


Peter
 
Peter Arnold said:
Right now every camera company is jumping onto the ProRes train. Sony, Panasonic, Blackmagic.
My feeling is that RED is loosing some ground here. But that's just my opinion.
Peter
Click to expand...

RED will come late to the ProRes party. I cant see how they can avoid it.
 
Prince Anthony said:
..codec, DR or all that techno crap we all yap about here....the market is polarised and busting loose....Pricess HAVE fallen...6K is soon going to $6K....Look dont get me wrong....shoot a feature with a 5D MKII and so long as its well lit, shot and handled and has a good story...the audience will go for it....codec or not...by the end of the day it is 6K at less than say 10K for the body against 30K for a Dragon....Gosh the Dragon is a Bugghatti Veyron in its class and beyond.....but these Cameras are no less in Muscle...like Ferraris?.........Hey RED, The CHINEESE ARE COMING.....and its going to hurt.
Click to expand...

If you are willing to trust your shoot to cheap crap, then there are many chides, if not, then not so many.

Thia cam has horrible color science, who knows what reliability, and very questionable dynamic range never tested by a reputable source. No thanks.

If I showed up on one of my sets - one next month will be running at $300 a minute and this is fairly typical in major markets - with anything less than Epic/Alexa/F55 and ANYTHING went wrong, I would have a lot of explaining to do. Why would I do that? Why not work with what is best? Chinese knock-offs are never the best at anything, and they often have untold problems that bite you when you least expect it.

Cineform is only 10 bit as is ProRes - a long drive from 16 bit RAW if you know anything about color grading.
 
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Norbert Jalitsch said:
why?
Click to expand...

Because RED is of the belief that compressing RAW images at 24 frames per second or above is completely novel and different from compressing RAW frames at 20 frames per second (prior art).
 
no one got back to me there fyi... so not a great start for perspective buyers...
 
Brian, try here:

AUTHORIZED DEALERS:

Germany and World:

Michel Juknat Innovative Technologies (MJIT)
HDVideoshop
Reuchlinstrasse 10-11
D-10553 Berlin
Phone: +49 (0)30 9203 8080
Email: contact@hdvideoshop.com
Website: www.hdvideoshop.com

Belgium, Netherland, Luxembourg (BENELUX)

DELIMEX NV
Babbelkroonstraat 10
B-2550 Kontich Antwerpen
Phone: +32 3 230 77 03
Email: info@delimex.be
Website: www.delimex.be

Poland

PROLITE
Kosciuszki 67/2
40-047 Katowice
Phone: +48 606 608 206
Email: info@studyjne.com
Website: www.studyjne.com


Peter
 
Prince Anthony said:
NAB 2014 is the year the Cliche RED had in the 4K-6K market ends?, forget AJA, SCION, BMD URSA....the KINEFINITY is the killer.....codec, DR or all that techno crap we all yap about here....the market is polarised and busting loose....Pricess HAVE fallen...6K is soon going to $6K....

http://www.kinefinity.com/kineraw_mini/?lang=en



...WHAT IS red GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? Huh?
Click to expand...


why do you say its a knock off?

because the rest world has caught up with resolution? its a different form factor, codec, price range- they have been making cameras longer than red (in other industries).

or are you saying this because they are chinese? the article isn't about AJA knock offs.

if red ends up loosing sales, its not because of knock offs- its red isn't suppling what the market wants.

paul
 
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