Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

help needed with fcp red one edit

J

john3000

New member
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I've an inte imac dual core 2.4 ghz at home and in the studio we've an intel 8 core machine. A friend of mine shot 1 hour video clip with the red one, some on 4k, some on 3k and 2k and I've to edit it to a nice music clip of 5 minutes.
At home and studio I downloaded the latest red plugins from red.com and use FCP 6.0.4 and I've to deliver it on dvcam (sd pal)
I'm helping my friend out so respect will be the only thing that I earn;)
This will be the first time I edit red one material so that's why I'm asking your help:) and the deadline is finishing it within 12 days, from friday.

Here are my questions?
1) Do I need an raid hard disk system that can handle this big files and transfer etc? or can I use an external lacie harddisk with firewire 800?

2) Is it possible to encode the footage on the red one harddisk to my harddisk and since I've to deliver it on sd quality, to encode the red one files to sd, so I can edit sd material beceause even my intel imac can handle that very easliy,

Or is it better to use the log and file transfer in fcp and work with ProRes 422 hq. But after 2 days of reading a lot of forums I found out that you can only cut the footages if you use ProRes 422 for any effect like fades etc you have to render, so when is it the best time for me to export the clip to an mov. sd format?


I've read a lot of forums but I got lost a bit beceause of the many workflows and things people say, that's why I started an own thread. I hope someone can help me out.

John
 
Download RED Alert and use the RED Rushes program to transcode your footage down to quarter resolution quicktimes, then edit them in FCP.

Set it the debayer to 1/4 and this will get you a file that will be more than enough for your application.
 
Wow... where to begin?

john3000 said:
1) Do I need an raid hard disk system that can handle this big files and transfer etc? or can I use an external lacie harddisk with firewire 800?
Click to expand...

I have worked of external HDD connected via FW800 before with little problem try it and see is the best answer, if need be upgrade to a faster connection.

john3000 said:
2) Is it possible to encode the footage on the red one harddisk to my harddisk and since I've to deliver it on sd quality, to encode the red one files to sd, so I can edit sd material beceause even my intel imac can handle that very easliy,
Click to expand...

You can encode the footage to and from any HDD regardless of where the original R3D files are stored. I think that was what you where asking...

john3000 said:
Or is it better to use the log and file transfer in fcp and work with ProRes 422 hq. But after 2 days of reading a lot of forums I found out that you can only cut the footages if you use ProRes 422 for any effect like fades etc you have to render, so when is it the best time for me to export the clip to an mov. sd format?
Click to expand...

There are a variety of work flow options one is to encode all your footage ahead of the edit from the R3D files to your compressed delivery format in Redcine or Redalert. Another option is to edit in FCP 6.02 and higher using the proxy files then re conform your edit using Monkey extract or Crimson work flow in Redcine and export to your delivery format.
I would recommend against using log and transfer as it is not a full debayering of the footage and will ultimately give you lower quality footage to grade with.
If you plan on using many FCP effects. May be worth your while looking at all the footage and selecting only the shots you want to use and compressing only them in Redcine, Redalert or Redrushes with a bit of color correction. Then use the compressed files in FCP with no need to round trip them back to a full quality debayering app.

Good luck.
 
Firewire 800 drives will work fine, SATA would be better, Internal Raid best.

Here's the workflow I recommend (don't like using the proxies):

-Import into FCP via Log and Transfer plug in for Offline edit (this will transcode to 1/2 Resolution ProRes files, takes about the same amount of hard drive space as original camera files)
-Do Offline edit

Conform:
-Export EDL and XML out of final cut
-transcode the FCP xml to a Redcine xml in Crimson
-Render HD size DPX sequence out of Redcine (RedLog Colorspace)
-Import EDL into Color, point to the DPX media folder
-Grade with Log to Lin LUT
-Render to ProRes HD
-Send to FCP
-Render to SD

This will give you an HD master. You will need it in 2 years.
 
florianstadler.com said:
Firewire 800 drives will work fine, SATA would be better, Internal Raid best.

Here's the workflow I recommend (don't like using the proxies):

-Import into FCP via Log and Transfer plug in for Offline edit (this will transcode to 1/2 Resolution ProRes files, takes about the same amount of hard drive space as original camera files)
-Do Offline edit

Conform:
-Export EDL and XML out of final cut
-transcode the FCP xml to a Redcine xml in Crimson
-Render HD size DPX sequence out of Redcine (RedLog Colorspace)
-Import EDL into Color, point to the DPX media folder
-Grade with Log to Lin LUT
-Render to ProRes HD
-Send to FCP
-Render to SD

This will give you an HD master. You will need it in 2 years.
Click to expand...

But his firewire 800 drives won't be able to playback DPX. I suppose you can mess with playback settings in Color to get around this right? Also, are you doing some initial preprocessing in Redcine?
 
what saleen93 said is the simplest way to get straight to editing with the least amount of learning curve.
 
Thanks a lot for your help guys, it means a lot to me :)
This is my first edit with red and I've a tight deadline so I guess that saleen93 is the simplest for now I guess.

So I downloaded redrushes and I saw the option in "render" to put in on quarter resolution. And the output quicktime movie, but what is the best codec for me to choose for the quicktime codec if I want to make an online edit with an 800 firewire hard disk?

Because the ProRess 422 will still be too heavy for online edit I guess? Or can I still make online edit if I use in FCP the setting unlimited RT and playback to medium or something(I found it on this forum as well).

I also see that in RedRushes I can resize the files, if I use pal dv sizes 720x576 would that be a smart thing to do? In redcine I can also do a lot of things what is better redcine or redrushes for encoding to desired quicktime movies?
 
Prores won't be a problem on any of the systes you have suggested, as long as you have enough space/RAM.

Some of the suggestions suggest an online/offline workflow, some suggests a more video-like workflow. Both works and have tradeoffs (online/offline will give you the best results if you know what you're doing and have the hardware to pull it through. Video-like is much easier)

You should test both and make a final decission BEFORE you start on your final edit.

IF you're going videolike (and with prores), I'd suggest you do at least a half (I always do full...) debayer - if the files you're cutting on are the ones you're finishing from.

To do an online/offline, you'll need something likecrimson workflow or rubbermonkey to do a final conform before colorcorrection.

IF that last paragraph meant nothing to you, you want to follow a video-workflow for now...
 
Ok I finally received the red hard disk with the footages.
I can use log and transfer within my fcp 6.0.4 with of course the required red plugins. I find this very handy the log and transfer.

But I've one question, my sequence setting in FCP shall I set it on dvpal (720x576) or put in on hd or use another sequence setting like 2048x1024? And what compressing shall I use in sequence setting, ProRess 422 hq, dv pal, redcode?

Eventually I've to deliver the clip in dvcam sd quality.
 
The most common answer would pe prores HQ,

But there is really no ONE way to go, especially as your delivery is dvcam...

My advice would be to do short tests before you decide...
 
If you want to re conform your edit out of Redcine to maintain the most quality coming out of raw. This means that after you cut the footage in FCP, you use Crimson or Monkey extract to export according to your edit the cut footage out of Redcine compressing and color correcting from raw. Then I recommend using DVPAL as this will be your offline format and will have no baring on the quality of your online.

But if you plan on ingesting into FCP using the log and transfer option then editing in FCP in your delivery format I recommend Apple Prores HQ at HD. At the end of the edit you will have an HD deliverable and be able to compress to SD for your SD delivery. This way your better future proofing the final cut of the project and giving your self more options for delivery if needed, (I find clients tend to change their minds often).

I recommend the first option as it will give you a better result.
 
well guys thanks a lot for your help, I used log and transfer and choose 1920x1080 prores hq. The edit and video clip looks really good but now I've to export everything to dv pal format. one on a dvcam tape and one on a mini dv tape.

I tried many exporting options manly quicktime options with 16:9 and 4:3 etc but I didn't get the desired wide screen 16:19 and quality.

When I export quicktime movie without conversion, so it's 1920x1080, it looks terrific but when I'm exporting as quicktime conversion as dv pal the result is not very good. I tried many exporting options like dv pal, best quality, progressive 16:9 and 4:3 etc.

These are the settings I used for my sequence and converting etc.

frame size: 1920x1080 HDTV 1080i(16:9)
pixel aspect ratio:square anamorphic 16:9
field dominance: none
compressor: ProRes hq 100% quality
 
Florian Stadler said:
Here's the workflow I recommend (don't like using the proxies):

-Import into FCP via Log and Transfer plug in for Offline edit (this will transcode to 1/2 Resolution ProRes files, takes about the same amount of hard drive space as original camera files)
-Do Offline edit

Conform:
-Export EDL and XML out of final cut
-transcode the FCP xml to a Redcine xml in Crimson
-Render HD size DPX sequence out of Redcine (RedLog Colorspace)
-Import EDL into Color, point to the DPX media folder
-Grade with Log to Lin LUT
-Render to ProRes HD
-Send to FCP
-Render to SD

This will give you an HD master. You will need it in 2 years.
Click to expand...

Hi,

I did a spot where we offlined using the proxies (importing to FCP etc) rather than using log and transfer plugin and then we did the "telecine" in davinci (at 2K) and the online in flame, with a master at PAL.. and all was good, in fact an even easier experience than cutting from film as there was no capture and the takes seperated etc etc and now the film is delivered and broadcast, so all good..

HOWEVER, I was thinking about redoing the online at home for my version, can I just do what you said but just using the proxies (i.e. using my original offline).. in which case what is the benefit of transcoding to 1/2 Resolution ProRes files in FCP? or is it that you just don't like proxies per se?

also is there a way of working with multiple layers in crimson or doing an online (and grading etc) with multiple layers from FCP to any other software... I have yet to buy crimson but if you say I should I will... or do I just load all the clips into crimson, do the grading then import them at HD res to FCP and master from there? or is there a way of getting FCP to reference the new "graded" clips and so then just being just able to export an HD version directly from FCP, cutting out FLAME etc??

basically what I am getting at with the second issue is that I have started to like using a fair amount of layers in my work and would like to know a way of onlining after FCP that doesn't involve recreating everything in Flame... and because often when doing my cut or online of work I can't piss around for ages trying things.. and I'd like to be able to...

PS.. I realise I just asked a hell of a lot of questions at once... sorry... and thank you!
 
coldpizza said:
I would recommend against using log and transfer as it is not a full debayering of the footage and will ultimately give you lower quality footage to grade with.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

This statement needs a caveat. If you're shooting 2K footage this statement is
incorrect...debayer used by L&T is the same as other RED software. For
4K->2K it depends on some control panel settings (which, unfortunately
are not available to the public _yet_)
 
The drives we use are maxtor FW 800. We make them Raid 1 - half the space but safer. We also have a cheap backup drive on set for redundancy. Edit with the medium proxies in final cut.

After you get your cut done. Change the sequence preset to 2k. Then use reconnect media to link your cut to the high proxies. Change the Render settings to high precision YUV and you're done... Media manage to color if you need or just color correct in FCP. (That's what we do but don't tell anyone;)

In my opinion the image is every bit as good as rendering through REDCine. I've done both many times and I'm in favor of what is quick and effective...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top