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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

help me to build a system

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Trident

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please help me to find answers for some basic questions regarding red media editing system
(using CS 5 , final out put DPX )


which system is considerably faster to edit R3D 4k work flow ?
1. Intel 8-Core (HT) i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz LGA
2. 2 x Intel® Xeon® Six-Core Processor X5680

In general what processors are preferable (xeon/I7/AMD) to build a workstation for red media 4k work flow ?

For 10 hours of 4k red media what type of raid i should have ?
(information regarding what type of raid controllers amount of the storage capacity so on )

Can i get real time play back from Red Rocket card while editing 4K red media ?

If yes what are the recommended preview monitors for color grading and client viewing ?

any technical suggestion to build a system under 15K ?


thanks
 
$15000 ? Nope. Not going to happen. You can get PART of the solution to get you rolling, but not the whole ball of wax.

You can get real time playback from a Rocket if you are using Avid Media Composer 5.

Your best bet on Adobe Premiere is to get the best Mercury supported video card you can. (Quadro 4800 I think right now.)

I don't think having more than four physical cores is meaningful right now, but it may be later on.

I recommend Intel processor Apple Mac computers. A single 6 core computer (when they become available) will a the smart option with a RED Rocket. This system also allows you to run Final Cut, Avid and Premiere- so whichever way you need to jump, you'll be covered.

If you are on a budget then Intel Core i7 processors with Windows 7 64 bit is a decent bet... but try and make it an edit/post dedicated box. If you use it for multipurpose work you'll develop problems over time. Keep a separate machine for the rest of your life.

Monitors... I think you should look at the new HP IPS displays for the computer, the ZR30W. Its a 30" display and can handle 30+ bit color. They are $1299. Two of those should make you smile.

You may also be happy with the ZR24W, but they "only" display 24 bit color. The upside is that they are just $425. Once you are willing to look at "mere" 24 bit monitors though, there are other good options... too many to go through.

check out Flanders Scientific's 10 bit 3G HD-SDI display (2470W) for your video monitoring. That is $10000 all by itself though. Its "little brother" the 2460W is a 24 bit display that is otherwise identical, and that runs about $5000. Both displays include waveform monitor and vectorscope, so they can save you some money as you start your edit suite.

Eventually though you shoud definitely get a separate hardware waveform/vector combination. Have a look at BlackMagic's UltraScope. Coupled with a small form factor PC its a very economical addition to an edit suite. (Build around a Windows XP Pro 64bit system and you are off.)

Most i/o devices these days also support HDMI output, and I recommend a Plasma HDTV as a client monitor. I don't get too particular. Lots of folks look at the 10+ bit panels, but I just don't care- so long as you have a production monitor in the suite. If that isn't an option, then you can get a 10+ bit Plasma for under $4000... I think close to $2500. I just have a cheap Samsung $1000 unit that serves perfectly for how I want to use it.

You'll want an i/o board other than the RED Rocket. I prefer something with multiple 3G HD=SDI inputs, so I can pipe the Rocket output into it over SDI. then monitor the Rocket on my edit monitors using my standard i/o path. I prefer the Black Magic Decklink Extreme 3D. ($995) If you are willing to give up multiple HD-SDI inputs and outputs, then AJA Kona LHi is a good option. Matrox MXO2 is also a good option.

As far as RAID goes... how much footage do you need online? Almost any RAID 5 system will work for most RED edit bays. So really you are just buying based on storage needs. The easiest/cheapest is a DROBO.

Don't forget a backup solution.
 
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build a system

build a system

Alexander,
thanks a lot for spending time to answer my questions

i have few more questions

if i narrow my option to i7 or xeon what would be the best option?(performance VS $$)

if we are running red rocket with CS 5 platform what is the use of it
(Rendering and so on ?)

is rocket card providing any play back acceleration on cs 5?
(i don need any video I/O other than the video preview monitoring ..cause i don want to capture anything or out put to VTR ....edit the 4K R3D and encode to DPX )

media storage : if iam editing 10 hours of 4K on line what should be the storage capacity (Raid 5) do you have any recommendation for raid controllers (can i survive with a controller or i need to go for raid box ? )

thanks
trident
 
If you want a pc, go check www.gamepc.com they have some custom built pc for multimedia purpose, you could take the linked one as a base, switch to a better Tyan motherboard, add a raid 6gb card and a nice ssd for system , and 4 2tb hdd.

You can have what you want for about 15 000$ with a (1500$) 30" display , a quadro 5800, but without Red Rocket nor broadcast monitor.
I'm thinking of the same custom PC right now, and I don't know if I should take a gtx480+Rocket or a just a Quadro5800 SDI, as I only have 5000€ for the video gear.
Of course, it can be better, but for 15 000$ I think this is the best way.

I will run on a 64bits Win7, Cesium a french unattended repack, which has a low memory usage and no useless software.
You sure can find the same kind in your langage. I use unattended winXP for 8 years, it worked as smoothly as a MacIntel. Can't wait to try the Win7.
 
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Brillante,

do u have any idea about i7 vs xeon x5680?
 
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Brillante,

additional tips .... there r some refurbished red cards in the market by RED. it cost around 3K with some limited warranty. i am in the same situation like you ....i still don know which one to go red card or quardro fx5800 . do any one have experience based knowledge to explain which is most effective way ?
thanks
trident
 
Please call me Bérenger.

Cuda will work with everything adobe cs5 can handle, but with red files, it won't be as good as a red rocket, and you won't have external monitor realtime preview in full quality.

Xeon 5680 are better than i7, actually they are i7 with more cache memory, and the Xeon architecture, which is better, and pricey.

If I had the cache(! :biggrin5: ), I would go Xeon, my last dual Xeon lasted about 5 years. It is future proof, and still works fine now with Red files.


Additionnaly, the new quadro series seems to be RedRocket like. It may be wise to wait til september.
 
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Bérenger,

thanks for the facts ....
i ended up here with another problem .even tho quadro FX5800 has 3 digital out puts only 2 will be active at a time ....is that means i need another card for video monitoring ? in that case do u have any recommendations for 4k video monitoring(DeckLink HD Extreme 3D ?) ... also i am impressed with the price that i pay for video monitor Flanders Scientific ... do u know any ten bit monitors for less coast ...some people say HP Dream color is really great !

kindly expecting your thoughts
thanks a lot
trident
 
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Some good info guys. Any of these systems come with Firewire 800 native?
 
re: Firewire 800 native

re: Firewire 800 native

you mean 800mbs per second ?
not really ...if your goal is to connect thru fire wire 800 just for speed purposes get a PCI Express FireWire 800 (1394b) card for the same price as 1394a. The PEX1394B3 is built with a native PCI Express chipset and does not use a PCI Express bridge chip resulting in faster reliable and cost effective performance. With an unrivaled 800 Mbps data transfer capability the two IEEE 1394b ports provide highly efficient reliable communication.this is the cheapest idea poping up in my mind

i hope this idea helps you !
 
Tim,


what type of video monitors you use for 4k footage color grading also if you use graphical -mercury based system how do u get the video monitoring out ? if that by a separate card what can be?
 
I didn't know that. So that's why people are using decklink or blackmagic card.
I guess it depend if you are working with one big monitor, and viewing with a broadcast monitor, or working with 2 screens and a broadcast monitor.

Having 3 monitors was nice with my old setup.

Maybe It can be good to get the new Quadro 4000 (cheaper), and used SDI out card + Redrocket.

Don't know, I'm new to this.
 
Quadro

Quadro

in some ways quadro seems great but however the video out works in a different way.actually u have to define in the computer screen.... which has to go to the preview monitor and so on .which can be done by choosing an area by a selection tool (this can be any thing ). in my point of view its not a professional way ! this preview system does not work some thing like matrox axio coordinates with the CS time line and by pass the video from the time line to the preview monitor .also if we gonna rely on this card for color grading output im not so sure bout the bit levels ...i remember when we were using S video outs , some old VGA outs used the same architecture .in that case i experienced considerable quality loss .if this happens with quadro then seriously its a rip off
 
no no, quadro is 2 dvi and 1 display port, with SDI output option 10 bits a guess...

Adobe detects every monitors linked to the video card. so you can use ANY monitor from 50$ to XXXXXX$, it will work. But for 4k, you need RR, and a 100 000$ display... :/

Personnally I use my JVC DTV17L3D, a broadcast monitor, through my second dvi output, So I have a desktop, and a monitor when I run Adobe CS. And knowing some shortcuts eliminated the need for 2 displays everytime...

Not perfect, but I can use it on field too, without buying an other monitor. I run a non profit organization, and we don't have big budget for our projects and gear.
 
i talked to some people who were using cuda 480 cards and fx5800.they strongly believe that 480 cards are more advanced than 5800.fx5800 cards got just 3 times higher memory value.on the other hand there is a way to modify the mercury engine to support any nvidia cards got more than 896 mbs memory .this way u can save thousands of $$$ .

additional tip: the decoding of video footage is still handled by the CPU and not the GPU in CS5 + mercury +cuda.so , if you are using heavily compressed video, you will still need a fast processor, since the video card won’t help with the decoding of the video.this may be the reason that play back is not so great like red cards !!! Also, keep in mind, that if you use a non-Mercury Playback Engine enabled plug-in or effect the GPU on the video card won’t help you.
 
i was in a hurry to join this forum and didn't have enough patient to read the red user policy that i should be adding at least my initials.two days later i figure out that it was a ban and never gonna be lifted .this is so insane .if the policy is to allowing the users to be with first and last name ...so y the website is still allowing to be just in first name ...on the other hand my name is trident ...thats my real name ! in north America if some one ask me wat is your name ....then the next question they as just like a gum? my gosh
lol
 
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