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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Help me be patient............RED is the way

Henry Olonga

Henry Olonga

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Just thinking out loud here guys so go easy on me.................
:blush5:
Placed a pre-order for the AF100 a few days ago. Sat on the fence for a few days and now I am afraid I feel I am going to cancel it.I keep thinking, perhaps I got a little ahead of myself with the great excitement. The AF100 is an amazing tool no doubt......but I am getting cold feet because I know that if I spend the money now - if /when better stuff comes out I will have buyers remorse. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh decisions.....there is soooo much just around the corner..

Anyway here's why - Good things come to those who wait right? I downloaded some raw 4K R3Ds from the RED website and dragged them into Vegas. Was surprised at how easily Vegas played the files natively (obviously scaled down but on my 1920 X 1080 p monitor was fine to edit and grade them. I also converted some of the files into Cineform - took them into first light and every change I made to saturation, gamma, white balance etc was a very, very pleasing result overall. I have captured to 10 bit Cineform from some of my cams and also to the Nanoflash over the last few years and so I have tonnes of footage lying around of all sorts of scenes. Grading them - although 8 bit sources and 4:2:2 was not as pleasing as a result on ALL counts. The RED stuff was just - well exquisite - I suppose the deeper bit depth and resolution have a part to play. I am basing this on an unbiased gut feel and a few tests. I just couldn't get any 8 bit acquired stuff to push around in grading very well. Mind you - it wasn't rubbish and certainly was a step up from Mpg, HDV or AVCHD but the 4k stuff was just - well wow! I also downloaded the Crews still grabs and graded them in Speedgrade onset - again not bad but hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm - something missing. Blown highlights hear and there and it got me thinking - RAW would be nice, extended dynamic range etc, and the more I graded, the more it reminded me of my 5D mark II Raw stills. Also the Sigma SD14. RAW IS a big deal - in whatever flavour it comes - even lossy compressed. It was a simple joy to grade.

Check this out - http://vimeo.com/16369165 . Tom Lowe with his AMAZING timelapses. RAW stills and RAW video from the RED. This is jaw dropping.300K hits so far says so as well.

I feel like I want to get the AF100 but somehow I feel that the extra 4 grand towards a Scarlet would be much better image quality - a significant step up from my GH13 or Nanoflash stuff wheras the Af100 resolves a lot of complaints - it is a smaller step up for me than to a RED.

Help me out here - does this make any sense?

Things are hotting up

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=51563
 
I feel the same way Henry. After playing a bit with a RED 1 and grading raw files in Redcine-X I am hooked. Long GOP encoded video is just not very interesting anymore.
I am more interested in a good 16mm film camera replacement than 35mm per se. 35mm DOF is nice, but not at the expense of absolutely everything else that impacts image quality.
Now with HDRx and possibly even 16 bit instead of 12 bit raw image capture Scarlet is looking better than ever as the affordable high quality film replacement option. There is so much more creative latitude with the images.
The price is stretching things for me too. I am more of a hobby shooter than pro these days. But for what Scarlet and RED technology offer, there is nothing remotely close to it in the price range and the modular nature of the system means we can start bare bones and build to whatever level suits us over time.
All in all very much worth the wait IMO.
 
Henry, I like that you took the time to download the R3Ds and do your own testing. That's what it's all about. Sometimes you really have to dig in and do your own comparisons and see what your threshold for quality is. Sounds like you came to the conclusion that RED's images meet that threshold and if you can secure the funds for it, you know you won't be disappointed now that you have seen the results first hand.

Great website by the way.
 
Hey Henry. First of all, an honour to speak with you. I well remember the black armband incident with you and Robbie Flower. An incredibly brave thing to have done. When I see some of the stuff going on within world cricket now it makes me shake my head.

As Steve has said, great that you took the time to do proper research. As you have found, the image quality of the current Red One M-X is incredible and challenged only by cameras much heavier and more expensive. The Epic, I believe, will raise the bar to a point where challengers drop away and the Scarlet, always meant to be an equal in image quality, is going to be amazing value. Of course, we have no idea how long the wait will be. But I have an inkling that, once the Epic begins to ship (soon, it seems) the Scarlet won't be far behind.

Of course, a lot of people sweat and worry about the decision over which camera to buy. If you need it now, you need to buy it now. Just bear in mind that, unless you're thinking about the fixed lens Scarlet, choose your lenses and accessories wisely for your 5D or AF100 and they'll all fit nicely into your Scarlet kit. Ebay can be your friend. If you have paid gigs between now and when Scarlet ships, you should be able to pay for the hit you'll take on rolling over the AF100 when your Scarlet arrives. If you don't have the gigs, wait is my advice.
 
Where did you download the .R3D files from? I've looked on the red website and could not find anything. I wouldn't mind playing around with some of those. Could you possibly post a link? I too am looking at buying the s35 Scarlet. I have been working with HDV compression and H.264 compression for awhile now and I just have to picky of an eye to look at that anymore. I need some real quality! I would wait for the scarlet, AF100 just doesn't push the envelope like what red is doing. Good luck in your ventures.
 
Joseph Coleman said:
Where did you download the .R3D files from? I've looked on the red website and could not find anything. I wouldn't mind playing around with some of those. Could you possibly post a link? I too am looking at buying the s35 Scarlet. I have been working with HDV compression and H.264 compression for awhile now and I just have to picky of an eye to look at that anymore. I need some real quality! I would wait for the scarlet, AF100 just doesn't push the envelope like what red is doing. Good luck in your ventures.
Click to expand...

You can find some here http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42130 . I downloaded them and when I opened'em up in Redcine-X I was totally blown away. Coming from a world so low quality like HDV and H.264 my every doubt about "Is RED the right choice for me?" went away. RED is the way to go. Period.
 
Well, if you have a project to shoot before Scarlet comes, then you gotta go with something. Can't you just rent the AF-100 or just sell your AF-100 when the Scarlet comes out? I mean, the most you're going to "lose" is probably around $1000 assuming that street price on a used AF-100 takes a nosedive due to Scarlet, so consider that the cost of a long-ish term rental.

I don't even think you'll lose that much. Scarlet and AF-100 is not really operating in the same price range. I don't know what your budget s like, but for a lot of people shopping for a $5000 camera, $1000-$2000 difference is a big deal. I really don't think there's going to be that much of an overlap in customer base between Scarlet and AF-100. I look at AF-100 as competing in the HVX/HPX market, not the EX3 market.
 
This new Sony is putting the cat amongst the pigeons. Comes with lenses as well. What a year 2011 will prove to be. I will hold off and let the dust settle ............
 
Anything that records to a video codec will be inferior to anything that records to RAW (assuming similar pixel specs etc.) Anything that pixel bins or line skips will be inferior to anything that records every pixel from the sensor to the file. Make those comparisons and the conclusion is pretty obvious.

If you need a camera now, buy it and earn, then trade up whenever something better (in this case, Scarlet) comes along. If you don't need it now, wait.
 
Hie Shane - thanks for the earlier goodday by the way - watching out for the ashes soon. Australia looking a tad vulnerable? My wife comes from Adelaide.

Well I sure am going to wait this out. Cancelled my pre-order and no matter what it takes going to wait for the Red offering that comes down the pipe. Obviously RED are leading the pack by a mile on specs - if they can get people to part with their hard earned cash with them.

The Sony will record - with an upgrade - to dual HD-SDI at 4:4:4 and S-log but by the time we have done the maths it will be really expensive. To be honest that would produce some jaw dropping footage but I like the concept of having one camera that does it ALL and no need for off-camera recording and travelling lightish.

The RED will do stills as well. Guess I better start saving...................thanks for the advice everyone.You have made it easier for me to be patient.
 
For me, what's good here is (aside the tech specs) ... Support ...If i have a problem with the equipment ill be in direct contact with the makers, furthermore, I can even abuse the owner if i please Like: "Jim... WTF!" (all with a smile and good attitude ofcourse) not sure if i could do that @ any other company
 
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Yeah - I think that access to the CEO is quite revolutionary. Don't know that any other company gives this level of access.
 
To all who keep "holding off" until Scarlet arrives - remove all emotion from the equation and think with a business head on.

Work out how many days filming you do per month, look at what it would cost then to hire and compare this with buying a camera that will allow you to work and make money until Scarlet ships.

I think the Panasonic AF-AG100 is the nearest camera on the market to Scarlet at the moment. Heck it costs around £3400 UK (Ex VAT) - depending on what your day rate is, then the camera should pay for itself in 6-8 days. Is the Panny as good as Scalet? Nope! Will it make you money? Yes, lots...if you any good that is :emote_happyhappy:

One lesson I have learned is stop holding off, stop waiting....there will always be something better to come and instead get busy working and making money!

Best wishes

Scott
 
Scott Brown said:
To all who keep "holding off" until Scarlet arrives - remove all emotion from the equation and think with a business head on.

Work out how many days filming you do per month, look at what it would cost then to hire and compare this with buying a camera that will allow you to work and make money until Scarlet ships.

I think the Panasonic AF-AG100 is the nearest camera on the market to Scarlet at the moment. Heck it costs around £3400 UK (Ex VAT) - depending on what your day rate is, then the camera should pay for itself in 6-8 days. Is the Panny as good as Scalet? Nope! Will it make you money? Yes, lots...if you any good that is :emote_happyhappy:

One lesson I have learned is stop holding off, stop waiting....there will always be something better to come and instead get busy working and making money!

Best wishes

Scott
Click to expand...

Scott - I think your approach is the right way to go but I think there is one small flaw in your analysis. (Not saying it negates what you are saying, but it is worth noting.) I take it you are suggesting a day rate of maybe £450-600 in order to pay for the camera in 6-8 days? If that is true, then you are valuing the work you do at £0 (or very little). Not too many people can live on that. :smiley:

So, if you imagine that you can only set aside a small portion of that income to pay for the camera, it might take many more shooting days to pay for it. And, since I imagine (but may be wrong) that a lot of us who are not yet in the full swing of getting paid gigs 5 or more days every week, the calendar might drag on a couple of months or more before that interim camera is paid for. I'd agree that if one doesn't yet own a camera, then an interim camera to make interim money is a no brainer (assuming you have the paid work). Otherwise, more careful timing might be worth considering. Of course, the whole analysis shifts if you are renting and whether the client is paying separately for the kit, etc. All that said, we also don't yet know when Scarlet will get here, either. :001_unsure:

I consider myself fortunate that I have a couple of good cameras to work with while I wait for Scarlet. Otherwise, I think the wait would be complete torture.
 
Henry Olonga said:
Hie Shane - thanks for the earlier goodday by the way - watching out for the ashes soon. Australia looking a tad vulnerable?
Click to expand...

A tad vunerable?! I'd say we're practically assured of defeat :lol: We thought we were a sure thing last ashes series in the UK and look what happened. It all runs in cycles and I think the Australian bubble has burst. We'll be back in five years.
 
Scott Brown said:
To all who keep "holding off" until Scarlet arrives - remove all emotion from the equation and think with a business head on.

Work out how many days filming you do per month, look at what it would cost then to hire and compare this with buying a camera that will allow you to work and make money until Scarlet ships.

I think the Panasonic AF-AG100 is the nearest camera on the market to Scarlet at the moment. Heck it costs around £3400 UK (Ex VAT) - depending on what your day rate is, then the camera should pay for itself in 6-8 days. Is the Panny as good as Scalet? Nope! Will it make you money? Yes, lots...if you any good that is :emote_happyhappy:

One lesson I have learned is stop holding off, stop waiting....there will always be something better to come and instead get busy working and making money!
Click to expand...

Yes Scott, I definitely agree with your theory and, (as Terry says) once allowance is made in your formula for net against gross income, you're dead right. Learn and earn. There will always be something new "coming soon". Don't let it stop you from creating and working today.
 
Shane Betts said:
A tad vunerable?! I'd say we're practically assured of defeat :lol: We thought we were a sure thing last ashes series in the UK and look what happened. It all runs in cycles and I think the Australian bubble has burst. We'll be back in five years.
Click to expand...


He he - You're the first Aussie that I have ever met to articulate that. Most of you guys are never say die LOL.:yesnod:

Guess it's that bad hey. I agree these things swing in round abouts. Look at the West Indies..........never been the same since the early nineties. I hope there are some good youngsters coming through. Anyway - enjoy it all when it begins.My wife is expecting boxing day so I may miss the first session.....

I am a true indie and my next camera may well be the last until I start earning. I am looking to make my own music videos and also a feature film lature this year. I have shot only a handful of corporate vids so the cam is really for my personal vision.Thanks again guys
 
i have gone back and forth on the af100 for a few months. I think i'm going with a pass. I currently own an hvx200 with 35mm adapter. The af100 is a step up up but not the leap up that i am looking for. I see the af100 as "good enough quality" for most people but I really am looking for a proffesional camera and like many people here i am hooked on RED and their workflow.
 
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