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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Help Free me from Gamma Hell!

T

Thom Steinhoff

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Okay. Screens set to 2.2, FCP compatability set in Quicktime.

RedCine: Stunning

FCP: Stunning

Export via compressor to AppleTV to play on my 60" sony: Washed out Crap!

WTF?

Do the same thing and do a gamma adjust in compressor of 1.5 and it starts to look okay but still nowhere as rich as my RedCine or FCP. Beyond 1.5 it stops getting richer and just gets darker.

What am I doing wrong?

Please help!

Thom
 
Try this
In compressor after you dragged the AppleTV preset over the project you want to export.
go to inspector window and in the filter tab than in color tab here you can select how to handle the colorspace of the exported media.
Choose "Preserve Source"
or "Rec 709".
Let me know if this works
 
What color space are DPX files?

What color space are DPX files?

Michele Gavazzeni said:
In compressor after you dragged the AppleTV preset over the project you want to export, go to inspector window and in the filter tab than in color tab here you can select how to handle the colorspace of the exported media.
Choose "Preserve Source" or "Rec 709".
Click to expand...

Which brings up another question. When I open a DPX file on my Mac, I'm asked what color space to assign to it. What color space should I assign? What's the color space of a DPX file? Can I download a color space definition for it somewhere?
 
Michele Gavazzeni said:
Try this
In compressor after you dragged the AppleTV preset over the project you want to export.
go to inspector window and in the filter tab than in color tab here you can select how to handle the colorspace of the exported media.
Choose "Preserve Source"
or "Rec 709".
Let me know if this works
Click to expand...

That was the first thing I tried before gamma adjust. It had no affect.
 
Thom how do you have your monitor calibrated? Target Gamma? What color temp?

The "preserve source" option should be what you need.

AppleTV can be a pain in the ass anyway, but I usually have decent results... Haven't tried it with any R3D stuff lately or newer QT and Redcine builds, maybe I'll take a look.
 
I exported a H264 @1000k - 1024x512,

It looks great on my original xbox, where I have all dailies and a 300GB Hard Drive. I just have to spend the time to compress everything to 1000k
An apple tv should play that. It wouldn't surprise me at all if something were wrong with the compressor presets, (compressor 3... like usual)
 
Thom,

Sorry, I butchered your post... I guess I had a mishap when trying to click the button I needed.

Thom said:
I don't have it calibrated with one of those eye things, but I do have it set to 2.2.
Click to expand...

Well, more than just setting your display to a target gamma of 2.2, you need to try and adjust brightness and color temp. If your brightness is way off, and often it's very low on most consumer LCD monitors, compared to an actual TV, this could have an effect. You should also try to target a good color temperature. D65 is a nice target because that's a common target used by many HDTV manufacturers including JVC and Panasonic.

I will try to output something to AppleTV later today sometime and see what's up.

As for a colorimeter (one of those eye things), I have a Spyder 2. I suppose it works as good (or as bad) as most all the other ones. It does help, but a lot depends on the monitors too and how much can be done at the monitor level to adjust.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Well, more than just setting your display to a target gamma of 2.2, you need to try and adjust brightness and color temp. If your brightness is way off, and often it's very low on most consumer LCD monitors, compared to an actual TV, this could have an effect. You should also try to target a good color temperature. D65 is a nice target because that's a common target used by many HDTV manufacturers including JVC and Panasonic.
Click to expand...

Will try!

Jeff Kilgroe said:
I will try to output something to AppleTV later today sometime and see what's up.
Click to expand...
Great, thanks!

Jeff Kilgroe said:
As for a colorimeter (one of those eye things), I have a Spyder 2. I suppose it works as good (or as bad) as most all the other ones. It does help, but a lot depends on the monitors too and how much can be done at the monitor level to adjust.
Click to expand...

I have a 23" Cinema Display--so I would think it should be able to adjust properly. At the moment I'm driving it via a Macbook Pro. I'm waiting to upgrade my G5 until the new Cinema displays come out to buy the Mac Pro together with a new cinema display (4K? 3K? HDMI? HD-Eye sight?)--which has to be soon, I would think!
 
OK Thom,

I'm on the same page with you now... AppleTV (and the iTunes player) are screwing up the gamma. I can output from REDCINE to a sequence or QT H.264, ProRes whatever. All color comes out fine. If I use compressor to make an AppleTV compliant H.264 file it still plays back in the QT player looking just fine. But AppleTV plays it back as if it's shifting gamma back to 1.8 rather than the 2.2 target. Actually, I'm positive that's what's happening. Somewhere there has to be an override or setting to impose on our M2V file to dictate the target gamma and/or colorspace. The colorspace options in Compressor don't seem to do anything (a bug?). Choosing to preserve the source color space or HD709 or default all give identical results. 4K to PoRes HQ to AppleTV HD sure looks nice though... Well nice for 720p AppleTV anyway. :)

Update> We're overlooking something... Or just need to re-calibrate everything for 1.8 gamma and go that route. It seems we can output direct from REDCINE as H264 max quality at 1280x720 5Mbps and give the file a .m4v extension. That should go right to AppleTV, but I can't verify this at the moment. However, just like all my other files. it still plays in the iTunes player all washed out (looking like Gamma 1.8). But plays in the QT player looking just fine.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
OK Thom,
Update> We're overlooking something... Or just need to re-calibrate everything for 1.8 gamma and go that route. It seems we can output direct from REDCINE as H264 max quality at 1280x720 5Mbps and give the file a .m4v extension. That should go right to AppleTV, but I can't verify this at the moment. However, just like all my other files. it still plays in the iTunes player all washed out (looking like Gamma 1.8). But plays in the QT player looking just fine.
Click to expand...

There's got to be some way to convert it to what it expects--it seems a shame to revert the entire system back to 1.8. If we want to post on web (movie trailers) they must be posting 1.8 footage or it would look bad for everyone who has their gamma set to 1.8. Maybe there is some gamma tags that need to be added?

I wish I knew more about this stuff. I'll try to play with it some more. Thanks for your continued support.

Best Regards,

Thom
 
Chase Gordon said:
Which brings up another question. When I open a DPX file on my Mac, I'm asked what color space to assign to it. What color space should I assign? What's the color space of a DPX file? Can I download a color space definition for it somewhere?
Click to expand...


It can be in any color space. There is no hardwired color space in the spec.

If a film negative is scanned to dpx or cineon, it's usually scanned as log, otherwise it's whatever you choose.

http://www.cineon.com/ff_draft.php

http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/formats/fdd/fdd000178.shtml

http://www.fileformat.info/format/dpx/
 
Thomas Mathai said:
It can be in any color space. There is no hardwired color space in the spec.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I see.

I'm specifically asking about the DPX files RED* generates, with the RED Log, Rec 709, or PD Log settings. Is there somewhere I can get ICC Profiles for these color spaces? Or LUTs?
 
Chase Gordon said:
Thanks, I see.

I'm specifically asking about the DPX files RED* generates, with the RED Log, Rec 709, or PD Log settings. Is there somewhere I can get ICC Profiles for these color spaces? Or LUTs?
Click to expand...

Like I said, you can have any color space for DPX files, it can lead to a mess if you let it.

If there are ICC profiles, I would assume they are custom built, I know After Effects CS3 can allow ICC profiles for each clip/.
 
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