Helium Onboard Audio Popping

[Austin Reeves]

Hey guys, hoping the braintrust here can help a RED newcomer out. I know the REDs are not renowned for their audio capabilities, but I have a Weapon 8k w/ an A-Box that I fed two mics into for a simple setup. Randomly I'm hearing popping in the audio. It would randomly appear on each of the channels individually, not both at once. On the first shoot I thought it was the wirelesses. The next shoot I used wired lavs, different XLRs, same thing. Frequency is anywhere from 1 every minute or so to 2-3 times in about 30secs randomly.

I ran a test at home, using a boom and lav monitoring same source. Obviously the R3Ds are massive but I trimmed on and posted it here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o937gxksokw2hxo/AAAN0CusZqRw1j5JFYA7CZfXa?dl=0

Excuse the meditation music, I wanted something with a steady tone so you could hear the dropout better.

-Pops are heard whether recording or not
-Occurs whether on AC power or not.

I haven't done much audio into camera so these shoots are the first time I'm noticing it, however it obviously renders audio into camera completely unusable. :banghead:


Any thoughts or help is greatly appriciated.

Austin

 

[Brian Pascale]

This shouldn't be happening. Make sure the A-box is plugged in all the way. You can also try re-installing the firmware. If you can borrow another A-box, you can test to see if that is the problem. Also the problem may be introduced before it is getting to the A-box, you might want to check your cables. You may want to start a ticket with Red support.

 

[Austin Reeves]

Thanks Brian. I’ve pretty much ruled out the cables. Working on a way to test the A-Box or just swap it out. It definitely is plugging in firmly though. Thanks for your input though and taking the time to look at the R3D.

 

[Devin Bousquet]

I have been having the same issue with my Epic-W.
I even have the RedVolt expander module.

I've tried using different setups and have had 2 different sound guys feeding from their mixers to the camera. I also tried my IO expander (instead of the RedVolt expander) with a preamp and then with the plain A-Box as well. All situations had the same results. A random click or pop noise about every 30 seconds to a minute. There were even times it would sound like a constant chattering or like a fan blade rubbing.

I did notice that switching between record and playback mode would either clear it up "some" or make it worse. All random.

After contacting RED they needed me to send in the Brain and the RedVolt for inspection. They received it today. I hope they fix it quickly.

 

[Andy Maser]

I had the same issues when I first started using my Epic W. The Epic brain had me used to running a lav/shotgun directly into the camera via an A Box for 75% of my work. First I experienced audio distortion in the field. Then, once in post, my sound mixer started asking me why I was suddenly recording such crappy audio. So I reluctantly bought a small JuicedLink box, ran my mics through that, turned the in-camera preamp all the way off and my audio was suddenly amazing again. Bottom line--the Weapon's preamps just aren't usable. I mean they technically are, but the quality is real bad. Too bad for my uses. Plus if you use one of these little preamps you get phantom power back.

Not ideal, still a step backwards from the functionality we had with Dragon, but it fixed the problem without making the camera too big to run and gun with.

 

[Devin Bousquet]

I actually have that same Juiced Link preamp box. I tried that same set up as well and it was still giving me the clicking and popping sounds. So I'm pretty sure in my case it's a possible brain issue.
There is no way they would sell the ReVolt Expander with XLRs (which has switchable phantom power) and it not provide quality audio. It would be pointless for anyone to buy if that were the case.

 

[Evan Falbaum]

I had this exact problem too with a brand new Helium Weapon running sound from external recorder through WC A-Box. Pops every 30 seconds or so. Never had a problem with Weapon MG. Thought it was a cable issue, but hadn't tested yet. Ran into some weird crashes randomly with an Audio Buffer Overflow error. Starting to suspect that might be related to this now.

 

[Andy Maser]

There is no way they would sell the ReVolt Expander with XLRs (which has switchable phantom power) and it not provide quality audio. It would be pointless for anyone to buy if that were the case.

If the RV expander also has a preamp, then I'd agree. If it doesn't then I don't think I would. But it may be subjective--what works for one doesn't always work for someone else.

I had audio buffer overflow issues too in the past, but I think that might have gotten corrected with a firmware update recently. I think secure formatting cards also helped with that. (from what I remember)

 

[Manfred Baulig]

we had this too with the Zoom F4 and you need to change the Audio input/output on the cam.
I dont really remember how we solved the issue, but will come back when I talked to my AC who solved it.

Regards

 

[Michael Tiemann]

I've had this issue before...looking at the audio WAV files, I could see that the periodic pops were actually audio dropouts (digital zeros for ~256 samples), and they occurred across all channels (both scratch mics and line inputs) using a base expander. Alas, a very clear problem that affected multiple cameras that disappeared as quickly as it appeared, so the ticket I sent to RED (Request #72798) was never resolved. This was using Beta 6.4.23 firmware back in July 2017. I suspect that there's an initialization problem still lurking in the firmware, and that 99.99% of the time, the dice roll in our favor. Hopefully yours is the problem that remains consistent enough that RED can actually track it down and solve it.

 

[Austin Reeves]

Wow thanks for so much feedback guys. Its very helpful. I've reached out to my sales rep for support and will report back what their response is..

Just to update you guys, I tried the everything I could think of including:

-different mics
-different cables
-hard reset camera
-wipe camera
-secure format media
-stress test
-switching external inputs from 1/2 to 3/4
-a new A-Box

To some degree it comes and goes but it is definitely there if you listen for more than a few minutes.

Austin

 

[Manfred Baulig]

hi,

if u r using a external recorder you need to switch the recorder to mic-in. For direct input we build a box on our own which works. I can ask my tech guy for the specs of it to work if you want to build one on your own.


Regards

 

[Devin Bousquet]

How many others are having audio issues with their RED?

I just got my Epic-W back from 2 weeks at RED after having audio dropouts, clicking sounds, and popping sounds. Sometimes even loud chattering noises. I did a test this morning and it's as if they never even turned the damn thing on. It's not even a bit different.

I paid the $4k for the REDVOLT Expander to get "professional quality audio" as quoted by RED, and this is what I get? Sure I know it's a cinema camera and audio should be recorded by a dedicated audio person but sometimes you just need to shoot a solo interview you know? I have amazing audio in my Canon C300MKII.

This is completely unacceptable and I can't understand why so many owners just think "well that's the way it is". This is beyond frustrating. If audio is not to be recorded in camera then it should be stated by RED front and center in the audio specs of the camera.

 

[BrendanLeahy]

I'm getting the occasional popping and something that I think sounds like we're all living in The Matrix - it's this stuttered, glitchy sounding hold on someone's word for half a second.

I figured this was just the media writing since neither the popping nor the Matrix-y sounds can be heard on the recorded media while I'm editing.

 

[Anthony Vitale]

I had this random popping sound a few days ago. I thought it was my lav mic but after reading this thread I'm thinking it might have been the camera.

 

[TC Johnson]

Hey Austin, Curious what firmware are you on? I just updated to v7.0.1 (Epic-W w/ Redvolt Expander) and immediately started having the same issue, audio popping every 20sec or so, with no way to remedy it. Rolled back to v7.0.0 this morn and problem solved.

 

[Devin Bousquet]

Hmmm I'm going to give this a try myself. I'll report back.
Thanks for the info TC.

 

[Devin Bousquet]

Hey Austin, Curious what firmware are you on? I just updated to v7.0.1 (Epic-W w/ Redvolt Expander) and immediately started having the same issue, audio popping every 20sec or so, with no way to remedy it. Rolled back to v7.0.0 this morn and problem solved.

Um... YES THAT WAS IT!
After even sending in my Epic-W Brain and REDVOLT Expander for repair and going through hours of tests and emailing back and forth with RED Techs, it's the damn FIRMWARE.
Weird thing is they had me go back to firmware V6 and it was still giving me problems. I just went back to 7.0.0 and the audio is perfect. I recorded a full 5 min clip with no issues, listened for 10 full minutes, and restarted it 4 times just to check. Even switched around internal mic channels and tried 2 different mics with the RedVolt. All worked perfectly.

I feel so stupid. Why didn't I try this before?
Thanks TC.

 

[Michael Hastings]

snip:

I feel so stupid. Why didn't I try this before?
Thanks TC.

Doesn't seem like we should have to try this - this was a .0.1 update and further it came out in Mid december and we just find out now that it is the problem. Audio popping isn't a minor issue - hard to believe this passed testing. This is supposedly a release build/update and audio doesn't work?

And when do we get a fix?

It seems like maybe Red needs to prioritize making current cameras work right - especially audio - which doesn't ever seem to be very important to Red. (I still have to bitch about a 1/8" stereo mini plug as the audio input on a $1900 add on module - that doesn't even have the threaded locking feature common on other semi-pro products) c'mon Red.

 

[TC Johnson]

Hey Devin, Glad it worked! Has to be a firmware issue.