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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Helicopter Engine Fails at 2000 ft on Red Aerial shoot, and the camera is rolling.

Dustin Veneman said:
you had to rub it in.... what does 8 hours on a spacecam with ship and crew cost these days?
its funny, I was telling the pilot about spacecam right before we had the engine go out.
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And luckily, everything went smoothly for us. You are very, very fortunate. Absolutely unreal.

SpaceCam's system is relatively inexpensive. It's the helicopter that is the main cost.
For the 3D rigs, it's about 3k per day, not including cameras or lenses. Operator/Aerial DP costs vary and the technician $650 per day. The average Astar around here tends to be $1600-$1800/hr and the pilots are around 2k or so.
 
CJ Roy said:
And luckily, everything went smoothly for us. You are very, very fortunate. Absolutely unreal.

SpaceCam's system is relatively inexpensive. It's the helicopter that is the main cost.
For the 3D rigs, it's about 3k per day, not including cameras or lenses. Operator/Aerial DP costs vary and the technician $650 per day. The average Astar around here tends to be $1600-$1800/hr and the pilots are around 2k or so.
Click to expand...

Wow, that is not bad... I expected more. We have been doing cineflex, which I am very happy with, but I would love be able to shoot raw...
 
Dustin Veneman said:
Does anyone have an idea why you can hear audio during the impact even though I have no audio plugged in to the camera?
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Maybe internal wires touching each other briefly due to extreme vibration? They're mini-XLR, right? Those pins are quite close together and thin, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the internal solderings could flex enough to briefly touch under such stress. I doubt the pins themselves could bend enough without something else more critical also breaking.
 
Pascal Scheffers said:
Maybe internal wires touching each other briefly due to extreme vibration?
Click to expand...

In principle to get a signal there should a voltage should be generated between the pins. In principle, a short circuit does not do this alone, but since practical systems are more complex, if you plug a cord of an electric guitar to an amplifier and short circuit the other end of the cable by your fingers, you'll hear this.

Guess the audio input of the camera was in microphone mode?

On the other hand, sounds like the (de-)acceleration should be pretty huge to create a force making the pins to touch each other. I mean, if the pins really bended, how come the human beings managed without getting injured? Another possibility to speculate is, if something created a sudden change in the magnetic field somewhere in the audio electronics chain, this might have incuded a voltage.

Quite an interesting issue.
 
Lauri Kettunen said:
In principle to get a signal there should a voltage should be generated between the pins. In principle, a short circuit does not do this alone, but since practical systems are more complex, if you plug a cord of an electric guitar to an amplifier and short circuit the other end of the cable by your fingers, you'll hear this.
.
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Just change of resistance on the PCBs and minute voltage difference coming from the power supply due to shock, I will guess.
 
ouch ... :O
 
Lauri Kettunen said:
In principle to get a signal there should a voltage should be generated between the pins. In principle, a short circuit does not do this alone, but since practical systems are more complex, if you plug a cord of an electric guitar to an amplifier and short circuit the other end of the cable by your fingers, you'll hear this.

Guess the audio input of the camera was in microphone mode?

On the other hand, sounds like the (de-)acceleration should be pretty huge to create a force making the pins to touch each other. I mean, if the pins really bended, how come the human beings managed without getting injured? Another possibility to speculate is, if something created a sudden change in the magnetic field somewhere in the audio electronics chain, this might have incuded a voltage.

Quite an interesting issue.
Click to expand...

The input was in microphone mode with a fair amount of gain.
the audio sounds exactly like what the crash sounded like, is it possible that the pilot keyed his radio during impact...? but that would be fm not am.... right? I really don't know what I am talking about when it gets down to that sort of stuff.
 
Dustin Veneman said:
The input was in microphone mode with a fair amount of gain.
the audio sounds exactly like what the crash sounded like, is it possible that the pilot keyed his radio during impact...? but that would be fm not am.... right? I really don't know what I am talking about when it gets down to that sort of stuff.
Click to expand...

Also noticed that it sounds like as if the crash had been recorded with a mic. What you say makes sense: The signal could have come from the pilot's microphone and the crash caused this signal to interfere with the camera audio circuit. since the mic gain of the camera was high. This explained why the recorded data sounds so much like a crash.

Electromagnetic compatibility is a tricky issue. Have you heard Bob Hope's famous quotation: My neighbour has had a new heart pacemaker fitted. Everytime he makes love my garage doors open.
 
A general comment that I hope will give pause for thought for anyone unlucky enough to find themselves in a similar position to Dustin.

What should the cameraman do, get the shot or reduce the potential for injury to himself and passengers? An impact to the side of the head at 11mph can be fatal.
In most autos and emergencies the landing is so bumpy the shot is a blurr so why not put the camera on the floor?
It is common for survivors of heli prangs to have back or spinal damage.
In a 4g impact the camera will weight enough to shatter your thigh bone or break your shoulder.
If the heli rolls over the camera can fly around the cockpit.


Is the shot worth it? given you know in advance that the outcome over rough terrain is likely to be unpleasant.
Discuss with the pilot before you take off what you should do with your kit in the event of an emergency.

I'm glad this incident didn't end in tears, unlike the majority of emergencies in small helicopters used for hand held aerial photography or filming.


Mike Brennan
 
Michael Brennan said:
A general comment that I hope will give pause for thought for anyone unlucky enough to find themselves in a similar position to Dustin.

What should the cameraman do, get the shot or reduce the potential for injury to himself and passengers? An impact to the side of the head at 11mph can be fatal.
In most autos and emergencies the landing is so bumpy the shot is a blurr so why not put the camera on the floor?
It is common for survivors of heli prangs to have back or spinal damage.
In a 4g impact the camera will weight enough to shatter your thigh bone or break your shoulder.
If the heli rolls over the camera can fly around the cockpit.


Is the shot worth it? given you know in advance that the outcome over rough terrain is likely to be unpleasant.
Discuss with the pilot before you take off what you should do with your kit in the event of an emergency.

I'm glad this incident didn't end in tears, unlike the majority of emergencies in small helicopters used for hand held aerial photography or filming.


Mike Brennan
Click to expand...

Hi Michael,

Thanks for you comments.
These are all very good points but...

1. The camera was already capturing when the engine quit.
2. The camera and gyro mount where both securely tethered with just enough slack to maneuver the camera.
3. The floor of this small helicopter was occupied by the tail rotor pedals as well as the stub of the cyclic control. Best not to mess with them :]
4. I was too busy assisting the pilot looking for power lines and pulling the starter lever under my leg to worry about turning off the camera.

Given this extra information I would like to hear your thoughts on best practice in this scenario.

Dustin Veneman
 
As a helicopter pilot with more than 11,000 hours in rotary wing aircraft and 4 inflight engine failures in single engine helicopters, my suggestions are:

Get a complete safety briefing prior to flight to include what to do in an emergency AND location and use of survival/camping gear such as ELT, life vests/life boat*

Inform loved ones/company route of proposed flight and estimated time of return or next contact time along with phone # of helicopter company.

Prior to flight, secure all loose objects (to include camera gear and/or clothing) away from flight controls .

Keep seatbelt/shoulder harness snug during flight. If you must loosen them for a shot, imediately snug them up after the shot.

Know where you are at all times. Ask the pilot to point out significant landmarks along the way and try to guage your proximity and in the event of an unscheduled landing. In short, maintain your geographical and positional awareness. Ask questions and know where you are.

In the event of an emergency, follow the pilot's instructions as if your life depends on it.

After the "landing" and if the pilot is not awake, stay belted and wait until all of the external rotating parts have stopped moving before exiting the helicopter. This is VERY important.


* Rule : Survival equipment is carried on your person during flight. Camping gear is equipment carried on the aircraft. If the helicopter burns or sinks in water (and a helicopter can do both really well and fast), all you will be left with is what you have on. Dress warmly and in non-synthetics if possible. Cotton, leather and NOMEX are good. Rubber and nylon/dacron not so good (they burn really well and stick to ya when they do).

Sounds like Dustin took the appropriate actions. He had a successful outcome and has a story to share with us. Good job.

Pictures come and pictures go. This just might be the only life I have, and if I am not around, I can't take more pictures. Pretty simple, huh?

Hope this helps.
 
Vance Colvig said:
As a helicopter pilot with more than 11,000 hours in rotary wing aircraft and 4 inflight engine failures in single engine helicopters, my suggestions are:

Get a complete safety briefing prior to flight to include what to do in an emergency AND location and use of survival/camping gear such as ELT, life vests/life boat*

Inform loved ones/company route of proposed flight and estimated time of return or next contact time along with phone # of helicopter company.

Prior to flight, secure all loose objects (to include camera gear and/or clothing) away from flight controls .

Keep seatbelt/shoulder harness snug during flight. If you must loosen them for a shot, imediately snug them up after the shot.

Know where you are at all times. Ask the pilot to point out significant landmarks along the way and try to guage your proximity and in the event of an unscheduled landing. In short, maintain your geographical and positional awareness. Ask questions and know where you are.

In the event of an emergency, follow the pilot's instructions as if your life depends on it.

After the "landing" and if the pilot is not awake, stay belted and wait until all of the external rotating parts have stopped moving before exiting the helicopter. This is VERY important.


* Rule : Survival equipment is carried on your person during flight. Camping gear is equipment carried on the aircraft. If the helicopter burns or sinks in water (and a helicopter can do both really well and fast), all you will be left with is what you have on. Dress warmly and in non-synthetics if possible. Cotton, leather and NOMEX are good. Rubber and nylon/dacron not so good (they burn really well and stick to ya when they do).

Sounds like Dustin took the appropriate actions. He had a successful outcome and has a story to share with us. Good job.

Pictures come and pictures go. This just might be the only life I have, and if I am not around, I can't take more pictures. Pretty simple, huh?

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks Vance!
I was wondering do you have a list of survival equipment items you carry on your person when flying? Does it change with the terrain?


Dustin
 
1) Glad you are safe and in good spirits!

2) Glad your Epic is safe and battle tested (on the lighter side, might be the first Epic to ride out an emergency landing?!)

3) Was it an R22? I trained 20 hours on one and had it fail on me while up practicing autorotations, funny enough. Barely cleared a treeline-sweaty palms for days. Only an R44 or more ironclad from here on out for me if I get back into choppers...But anyway, will you get back in the saddle and take to the skies anytime soon? Epic aerial footage is simply...epic.

Happy shooting brother, stay safe!
 
Anderson Boyd said:
1) Glad you are safe and in good spirits!

2) Glad your Epic is safe and battle tested (on the lighter side, might be the first Epic to ride out an emergency landing?!)

3) Was it an R22? I trained 20 hours on one and had it fail on me while up practicing autorotations, funny enough. Barely cleared a treeline-sweaty palms for days. Only an R44 or more ironclad from here on out for me if I get back into choppers...But anyway, will you get back in the saddle and take to the skies anytime soon? Epic aerial footage is simply...epic.

Happy shooting brother, stay safe!
Click to expand...

Thanks Anderson,
It was actually a Hiller. Lots of inertia in the blades :] I was shooting on red one mx. I hope to be back in a chopper soon. I have been doing some fixed wing flight training but I am in the middle of post for this doc so I have not had much time lately...
 
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