Handheld Shooting Posture. How do you do it?

[Roger Alexander]

I mostly shoot music videos on gimbals, steadicams, and tripods. Sometimes though I have to go handheld, and I don't always have a shoulder rig option available. So I'm curious how experienced RED shooters posture their bodies and hand placement to try to get the most stable, smooth-moving shots when going handheld. If there's a side-grip available I usually have my right hand on the side grip, left hand on the lens, and if possible, press the backend of the camera into my body for a third point of contact to stabilize. Below is a picture of that (though you can't see everything) I'm curious to hear how other shooters position their hands and bodies for handheld shooting. My main concern is that with the Raven, we won't have a side grip (until the new one is released in the summer) and I cant bring myself to spend $550 on a handle bar that just goes off to the side. (i will probably wait for the grip) How would you suggest operating the camera handheld without the grip? Maybe there's a third party side handle or grip that's cheaper? Or better hand placement/technique that might work? Please spare me your "I use this $4,000 rig" responses. I'm breaking the bank as it is getting my raven package lol.

10 bonus points to the person who can name this artist lol

 

[Jason Bodnar]

Young Thug maybe? I broke down on the 550.00 for the outrigger handle as that stop and record on the thumb is handy and will hold me over until the new side handle comes as it may be a while. Your technique is similar to mine when handheld and run and gun. with no side grip you are going to need to go into "Hasselblad mode" http://photo.net/bboard-uploads/00Hdvy-31737384.jpg

 

[Darryl Harris]

Thugger! I wonder if that's Be El Be with the camera, also wonder if this video is for "King Troup"

 

[Roger Alexander]

Young Thug maybe? I broke down on the 550.00 for the outrigger handle as that stop and record on the thumb is handy and will hold me over until the new side handle comes as it may be a while. Your technique is similar to mine when handheld and run and gun. with no side grip you are going to need to go into "Hasselblad mode" http://photo.net/bboard-uploads/00Hdvy-31737384.jpg

I'm still on the fence. Right now I think I'll wait for the grip. The handle won't get used once I buy that. Thanks though. and yes good google search lol

Thugger! I wonder if that's Be El Be with the camera, also wonder if this video is for "King Troup"

That's me behind the camera lol. I was DPing for Be El Be who was standing outside the frame and yes it was for King Troup video

 

[Darryl Harris]

Wow, much respect. Huge fan of Thugger. As well as the Young Thug X Be El Be videos. Can't wait to see your work with them.

 

[Simeon T Geyer]

Well I'll be getting this for my Scarlet-W since it's much cheaper than the RED one - and yes I know it is missing the start stop button but I don't mind.
http://woodencamera.com/Side-Handle-Leather.html - it comes in 3 options, leather, rubber and cheeseplate
But down the line I'll probably get new sidehandle

Also I personally don't push the camera against my body if it is not too heavy. I rather try to seperate if from my body and use my arms as suspension.
I know sounds weird and is quite tiring but works for me so far.

 

[Robert Hart]

This would be totally against all sensible occupational health and safety guidelines - but - sometimes, if indoors, I want to do a roving shot, I lose my shoes to slide and glide on the shiny floor in thick work socks.

If the camera's ergonomics permit, I will hold it "Bolex-style" outboard of my ample gut about 300mm about chin height with the heel of right palm under the rear base, three centre fingers facing rearwards towards shoulder bent upward over the battery, thumb and finger number five clasping the side of the camera body, hold upper front of camera from overhead with left hand, with fingers facing forward to work the lens focus/zoom/iris with fingertips from above.

The right hand carries the weight, the left hand is a steady.

It is intially awkward but with a bit of practice, you can achieve a fair float like the arms of a steadycam. Autofocus stills lenses with no friction in manual mode are best for this method. Draggy lenses like normal damped cine lenses are difficult to manage by this method. It helps immensely if you are a musician with fine control of all fingers and thumbs.

I'm not as limber as once I was. If going hand-held and a subject is to pass and I have to pan-follow, my personal preference and likely the method of others is to stand with feet slightly "at-ease" facing directly across the intended path of the subject, then swivel toward the direction the subject is approaching from and twist through the passing on to the departure. You can keep a pretty good horizon doing this as your feet do not move.

Take notice of the trained and experienced follk who give advice. I am only a self-taught mug who happened to learn a few things the hard way.

 

[Roger Alexander]

Well I'll be getting this for my Scarlet-W since it's much cheaper than the RED one - and yes I know it is missing the start stop button but I don't mind.
http://woodencamera.com/Side-Handle-Leather.html - it comes in 3 options, leather, rubber and cheeseplate
But down the line I'll probably get new sidehandle

Also I personally don't push the camera against my body if it is not too heavy. I rather try to seperate if from my body and use my arms as suspension.
I know sounds weird and is quite tiring but works for me so far.

thanks for this link! I didn't know WC made side handles too. I might check out the rubber one.

 

[Roger Alexander]

This would be totally against all sensible occupational health and safety guidelines - but - sometimes, if indoors, I want to do a roving shot, I lose my shoes to slide and glide on the shiny floor in thick work socks.

If the camera's ergonomics permit, I will hold it "Bolex-style" outboard of my ample gut about 300mm about chin height with the heel of right palm under the rear base, three centre fingers facing rearwards towards shoulder bent upward over the battery, thumb and finger number five clasping the side of the camera body, hold upper front of camera from overhead with left hand, with fingers facing forward to work the lens focus/zoom/iris with fingertips from above.

The right hand carries the weight, the left hand is a steady.

It is intially awkward but with a bit of practice, you can achieve a fair float like the arms of a steadycam. Autofocus stills lenses with no friction in manual mode are best for this method. Draggy lenses like normal damped cine lenses are difficult to manage by this method. It helps immensely if you are a musician with fine control of all fingers and thumbs.

I'm not as limber as once I was. If going hand-held and a subject is to pass and I have to pan-follow, my personal preference and likely the method of others is to stand with feet slightly "at-ease" facing directly across the intended path of the subject, then swivel toward the direction the subject is approaching from and twist through the passing on to the departure. You can keep a pretty good horizon doing this as your feet do not move.

Take notice of the trained and experienced follk who give advice. I am only a self-taught mug who happened to learn a few things the hard way.

Thanks for this Robert, this posture sounds interesting, do you have a picture of someone demonstrating it so I can see it?

 

[Roger Alexander]

Well I'll be getting this for my Scarlet-W since it's much cheaper than the RED one - and yes I know it is missing the start stop button but I don't mind.
http://woodencamera.com/Side-Handle-Leather.html - it comes in 3 options, leather, rubber and cheeseplate
But down the line I'll probably get new sidehandle

Also I personally don't push the camera against my body if it is not too heavy. I rather try to seperate if from my body and use my arms as suspension.
I know sounds weird and is quite tiring but works for me so far.

heads up i just spoke with a sales rep at WC and it appears the side handle screws spacing wont fit on the raven

 

[Joan Poggio]

Roger, this will sound stupid but I use a 5" swivel arm to keep the screen away from my face when I put the camera up against my body, just like in your picture. I also use that swivel arm, probably agains all recommendations, as a "handle" for when I'm shooting low and some other occasions like when I have removed the side handle to make it lighter... I mean, who cares how you hold the camera as long as the pictures come out fine, no?

 

[Roger Alexander]

Roger, this will sound stupid but I use a 5" swivel arm to keep the screen away from my face when I put the camera up against my body, just like in your picture. I also use that swivel arm, probably agains all recommendations, as a "handle" for when I'm shooting low and some other occasions like when I have removed the side handle to make it lighter... I mean, who cares how you hold the camera as long as the pictures come out fine, no?

this is a good idea, I hadn't thought about using the arm like a handle. It is a little alarming, of course I'd have to make sure that thing is super sturdy before I try it, but I just might.

 

[Joan Poggio]

I've used the arm for two years now and, knock on wood, have never had a problem with it. Having said that, I always have my other hand holding the camera somewhere else, most likely the lens!

 

[jordan levy]

heads up i just spoke with a sales rep at WC and it appears the side handle screws spacing wont fit on the raven

i bought a non-power outrigger on ebay for $150, it has a slot instead of screw holes so it will line up with raven.

here is one going for $70!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Red-Outrigger-Handle-/111935735397?hash=item1a0fe3c665:g:YxMAAOSwr7ZW5lQU

and a brand new one for $175

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RED-Outrigg...075133?hash=item210a8f293d:g:RUkAAOSwFqJWo7wY

 

[Marcus Friedlander]

If you are shooting a lot of handheld you should buy a handheld rig.

That'll be the best bet for getting smooth handheld shots.

Both Element Technica and Wooden Camera make great handheld rigs.

 

[Howard Kan]

Check out http://www.smallrig.com/ I spoke to their CEO and they are going to be working on dsmc2 compatible rigs. They have tons of affordable support rigs and pieces and will even work with you to create what you need...

I'm personally going to adapt my current a7s shoulder rig by switching the offset piece to the front attached to the handles, and having the shoulder pad under the camera. This will require a swivel arm or some way to mount my assassin towards the front by the handle. The handles/shoulder pad should cost around $500.

Here's what it looks like.
https://vimeo.com/155469780

 

[Robert Hart]

Thanks for this Robert, this posture sounds interesting, do you have a picture of someone demonstrating it so I can see it?

I don't have any photos of that hand-holding method. I used it in light aircraft which are a bit tight for workspace and got a reasonable parallel "float' versus an angular movement which then jerks the image about. I also used it with a heavier AGUS35 groundglass adaptor HDV camera combination when shooting some BTS for a low budget action movie.

For lower positions and holding closer to the height of my ample gut, I reversed the grip by swapping hands, underhanding the front, still using fingertips for focus and overhanding the back with the reverse grip, using a No.5 finger for buttoning on and off. Often times I would also brace back to the gut when holding outboard in this position cruelled my ageing back.

If I get a bit of spare time and another operator, I'll see if I can film and post something.

 

[Milan Spasic]

 

[Bob Gundu]

LOL.

 

[Andrew Linga]

Oh man I almost died^