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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

gut feeling, 2/3 might still be alive

Emanuel A. said:
I am with you Gunleik LOL

With the due respect to others' POV (even 'cause despite they are just a few, they are Robert Jackson, Felix, Jhoe Davis, Radoslav, posters we were/are used to read, respect and love the(ir) posting :) sometimes looks like a melodramatic comedy (E :-)
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I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
 
J Davis said:
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
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I think your best part meant it right :) I am used to appreciate to read the posts of any one of those mentioned up there from dvinfo.net/dvxuser.com days, you included. What means to take in consideration what you say and sometimes to incorporate as my own opinion if not formed already. This time, aside one or another points as for instance those brought by Robert, there's no need to over-dramatize it. In short, crop it as same as it would happen with the 2/3" plan. Simply Jim understood he should offer substantial more for a little bit more. Competition oblige too ;)
 
Jim already said the 2/3" 3K program was scrapped. The fixed lens model still held some interest as it was nice and compact, but they couldn't get the lens to work after all they tried -- would not hold focus through the zoom range. I really doubt any of the 2/3" models will resurface. IMO, the interchangeable 2/3" model was always an enigma. Appropriately-sized lenses on the market are mostly made for 2/3" broadcast cameras and would require an optical adapter with correction for the single-chip design of a 2/3" Scarlet. Very few, if any, of the "HD" broadcast lenses would be able to resolve high enough to compliment the 3K sensor... Especially through a layer of optical correction. There's always Super-16 glass, but it's not very plentiful and rather expensive, not a whole lot of options out there in production, the world has moved on. Thus making the RED mini-primes a required purchase for most people that would buy this camera.

As for the naming Scarlet-C and Scarlet-F, that wasn't Hutson's doing. The Interchangeable model had been the Scarlet-Cinema and the fixed lens the Scarlet-Fixed, since they were announced with the "everything changes" update in 2009 where we were introduced to the different "brains".

RED mini primes will probably never be released. They serve no purpose without a 2/3" interchangeable Scarlet camera... I suppose they could work on the RED One, Epic or Scarlet-X if a proper mount were in place and if you only shot at 2K... Or whatever cropped sensor area would fit within their coverage circle.

It will be interesting to see what comes in the future from RED in the form of Dragon and other sensor options. The EPIC and Scarlet are compact enough and smaller than most 2/3" cameras. So I don't need the 2/3" system for it's size -- I wanted an 8X fixed Scarlet or two for shooting live event and EFP coverage, sporting events, etc.. If we can get fast-acting auto-focus or reliable focus-assist, or sensors that allow us to shoot at F8 to F11, even at night on a motocross track light by generator-driven halogen lights, then I'll have no more need for any of those other HD cameras. The focusing is the key and as much as we all like (and even prefer) the resolution and look of the 35mm formats, the longer focal lengths associated with the format make manual focusing, especially on the fly, following action, a good bit more difficult than with a 2/3" system. Shallow DOF is not always the way... But neither was 2/3" at 3K...

I totally understand those on budget constraints... We've all been there at one point or another. As with all technology, this system will continue to improve and pricing will keep shrinking in relation to features offered. Keep your eyes out for used Scarlet systems. They will show up in the not too distant future, there will be deals to have. At $14K for a ready-to-shoot package, a Scarlet should be a very economical rental.
 
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the fact that the fixed zoom lens was not parfocal doesnt surprise me! I was working with a red zoom 17-50 and it was breathing so much I found it unreasonable to buy for that price! The lenses really seem to be a problem still....I mean there is available glass out there for 3 and 4 times the price that is parfocal and wont breathe so basically it seems you get what you pay for.
I would have liked to get a 2/3 model because I do a lot of TV work and need deep focus more often.
 
for me it's nothing to do with sensor size, actually I don't give a hoot, it just means faster primes at shorter focal lengths with small image circles.
... its all about the change in price point, 7k working package vs 14k working package and I'm priced out
 
not interested in rental, thats money down the drain for my productions.

its far better to buy it, own for a period and then sell and the money lost on depreciation far outshines rentals costs

maybe a used scarlet body further down the track and run it off red bricks, small HD and rotating CF's ...
 
J Davis said:
I was thinking - how can they be throwing away all the R & D? We saw footage, Hutson was running around with one at that convention ... etc etc

plus Joseph Hutson let a little harmless something slip. :smiley:

Remember how he started hanging around at red hq, remember how he posted a scarlet lens thread that became a sticky and he was calling the cameras scarlet-c and scarlet-f ?

Well up until that time no one from red had used those names and this new scarlet is called scarlet-x which fits in with the naming convention.

Also, if they were only going to release 1 scarlet, why not call it scarlet?
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Why call it Scarlet at all, if it's essentially a reduced-feature Epic? Why not just Epic-S?
 
Robert Jackson said:
Nah, it doesn't actually live up to the specs we were told Epic-S would meet in terms of frame rate, so it's more like Epic-S Light. Maybe call it ESL? Heh...
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Red has changed specs before, haven't they? Or am I thinking about another company?
 
What bothers me is what Steven, Subhadip and J Davis said. I don't know that anything Red tells me is coming or in the pipe will be believable again. Not that I feel like I was set-up, but after years of waiting for Scarlet, saving for it and willing to spend up to $10k for a package, all of Red's talk about it, talk about democratizing the industry, all the generation of excitement and interest from people, to find that it really doesn't exist and never will (other than name only, Epic-S essentially re-branded Scarlet-X), brushed aside by the word "professional", tells me the next time they tell me they are working on something new and exciting I will not believe them.

From here on out, no matter what they say, I will only believe products from Red the day they are officially released, and assume everything else they are talking about doing in the future will not likely ever exist.
 
That was really good :-) (I guess not as good as I thought, after reading Robert's assessment.) Jim Davis makes a really good point here, that a lot of the 'no cry baby' types just poo poo: expectations were based on the word, not sheer hope. $14K entry is still huge for many filmmakers. The pros who get paid to shoot exclusively, using gear paid for by their bosses, are beyond the $ dilemma others face. It's easy to forget what it 'was like' when you were cobbling together a career or a life.

Emanuel A. said:
Agreed. As much as this 2/3" drama. Here is something shot with a FF camera. One-shooter-show in the most part of the shots.

(posted a few minutes ago in another thread, but it looks like I am feeling the need to post it again :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98lueg1ZItI
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Phil Anderson said:
From here on out, no matter what they say, I will only believe products from Red the day they are officially released, and assume everything else they are talking about doing in the future will not likely ever exist.
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I'll add "the day you receive the parcel, open the box and fire up the product." We never know now...
 
Jim posted the RED roadmap, there were a couple "surprises" listed in there. Time will tell.
 
12 grand gets you the camera you guys want from Sweden that has global shutter w/ ccd; uncompressed RAW and 12 bit color/4:4:4 internal recording which is 2/3 sensor.

I don't know why anyone that wants a 2/3rd sensor camera that is cmos at least without global shutter tech.

I really like Red, but you don't have to have RED everything in life.

The super 16 market is a niche market, and I agree, I prefer the format as well, but it does not make good sense to go with a 2/3 camera and spread themselves too thin with a bunch of sensors that have no resemblance to each other. Leave the niche market to the niche camera makers like Ikonoskop which has a proven camera system utilizing C-DNG which can be easily manipulated in Adobe Lightroom with great success.

Many people on here are complaining for the sake of it and only wish to change RED's business decision which in all honesty, would only end of selling a handful of 2/3 cmos cameras opposed to millions of Scarlets.

Just get the f'n Ikonoskop already and stop bitching at Mr. Jannard.

I've been waiting since 2007 for the Scarlet as well, just decided the Ikonoskop was better for my needs and probably your needs too. I'm sure with the bugs, and the exciting images coming from this competing camera that really only is catering to the few that prefer S16, it just didn't make sense to compete in this area of the competition which is truly Independent and not blockbuster.

You all should be happy you got the option to get the 40-50k Epic for under 10k, and I've said it many times, if you need S16, just get the Ikon like I did while supporting another great company.

Those who want to wait endlessly for Red to perhaps pull out a 2/3 from their sleeve, are obviously not inclined to get to filming with awesome tech that already exists for the digital S16 format and just babbling on these forums.
 
Robert Jackson said:
Usually they didn't change them to something less impressive. ;-)
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Off the bat, I can think of four specs: The original, 3K-for-$3k Scarlet had, on paper, a 100-MBps maximum data rate, HD-SDI out, a 4.8-inch LCD, and two CF slots (supposedly supporting hot swapping). The first specs released for the more-expensive modular redesign included a maximum RedCode 42 (i.e., a 42-MBps data rate), no HD-SDI on the brain (you needed to buy the pro I/O module for that), a default 2.8-inch LCD (which was eventually scrapped) as part of the kit, and only one CF slot. (As a side note, I was never a big fan of modularity, as the Scarlet's price suffered disproportionately, and as it turned out, not all the modules worked with all of the brains -- a further strike against the value of modularity, particularly at the low end.)

As it turned out, all of my questioning the viability of 3K in light of Red's 4K position -- which Red never adequately addressed -- was right on the money. Unfortunately, when I raised it people jumped all over me as if I didn't know what I was talking about and raised the true (but irrelevant) "nothing else compares to the value of Scarlet." As late as October 30 I said this. Oh, well.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Jim already said the 2/3" 3K program was scrapped.
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I must have missed this somewhere; it certainly wasn't made clear. I knew about the problems with the Fixed Scarlet, but since lack of interchangeable lenses was a dealbreaker to me, that didn't bother me too much, though it's certainly a real shame that RED poured tons of R&D money into a product that ultimately didn't work out.

Admittedly, there hadn't been much news about the 2/3" program, but I assumed much of this was due to RED's desire to no longer telegraph their plans to competitors, and that they were focussing primarily on the rollout of Epic. The only word that hinted at the demise of the 2/3" program was Jim's mention that people who were hoping for "3K for $3K" were in for bad news. I assumed that was less about the 2/3" program and more about the rise in price from $3K, which I was fine with.

Did I miss another announcement about the 2/3" program? It's certainly possible.
 
Steve Doll said:
Jim posted the RED roadmap, there were a couple "surprises" listed in there. Time will tell.
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"The Dragon upgrade is actually just a sticker we put on the outside of your Epic! Surprise! Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates...nyuk, nyuk, nyuk..."
 
LOL!

This is the only "Dragon" from Red I believe in:

dragon-black-back.png
 
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