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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

GROUP BUY: CAME steadycam 2-15kg >1600USD

GROUP BUY: CAME steadycam 2-15kg >1600USD

  • < 1500USD

    Votes: 79 71.2%

  • < 2500USD

    Votes: 20 18.0%

  • < 3500USD

    Votes: 6 5.4%

  • > 3500USD

    Votes: 6 5.4%
  • Total voters
    111
Alexander Thomson said:
Now that I think about it, I'm sure Tiffen would (should) consider taking one or two of their STEADICAM rigs down to near cost. Not only will they keep 100+ copies of a competitor's "steadicam" off the playing field, they also get to ensure 100+ units are sold to an extremely vocal group of REDusers :) the opportunity cost/value is pretty high in our favor, with 100-150 people in on this group buy. Why didn't we think of this sooner?
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I thought about it, but then didn't wrote them a mail. I think the resell price of Tiffen products is too high, so they would destroy their own market. They are already the market leader, producing their units is high quantities, so they can't really justify a price drop due to larger ordering volumes. My guess is that the discount wouldn't go above 15%. What I did was contacting a Steadicam dealer, who is also producing steadicams (Betz Tools), asking about a custom unit or a special price for the Zephyr, but never heard from them again.

But I could write them a mail. Maybe they are interested.
 
Benedict Heinzl said:
I have a question about the L'Aigle.
I've read that there is no way to fine tune the arm an the old design of the arm (Review on HBS).
In the description on your blog there is a passage about ajdusting it by wing knobs. (Would have quoted it but was not shure if thats allowed)
I haven't seen a wing knob on the last pictures?
Can someone confirm the 'on the fly' arm adjustability?

But after all I'm very attracted by the L'Aigle offer.
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The new version will look like the arm on the last pictures, but with knobs like on the first pictures (they didn't yet produce a folded metal arm with knobs).
 
Coming from Central (COLD AS HELL) Canada... reading the concerns regarding weather on the L'aigle's elastics gives me pause... I don't like the idea of having to adjust depending on weather either hot or cold is not something that seems appealing, granted I try to avoid shooting in the VERY cold anyways.. but it does come up more often than not. I'm talking -20 to -40 celcius. I've shot in as cold as -50... i'm sure these temperatures would negatively effect even robust steel steadicams to some degree. Regardless, it's food for thought. Maybe something the people who test the l'aigle can explore.
 
David Kellermann said:
I thought about it, but then didn't wrote them a mail. I think the resell price of Tiffen products is too high, so they would destroy their own market. They are already the market leader, producing their units is high quantities, so they can't really justify a price drop due to larger ordering volumes. My guess is that the discount wouldn't go above 15%. What I did was contacting a Steadicam dealer, who is also producing steadicams (Betz Tools), asking about a custom unit or a special price for the Zephyr, but never heard from them again.

But I could write them a mail. Maybe they are interested.
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I think we have enough choices. I think we should just focus on closing a deal. I'm shooting a feature in May and need to have a rig by then. If we are unable to get a group buy together before then, I will have to just purchase my rig independent of the group buy.

I'm also hoping that the L'aigle group and the PROline group will do what's best for everyone and ultimately all come together to form one group, and choose either the L'aigle or the PROline... I have no idea how we are all going to arrive at an agreement though. That's the trouble with too many choices - analysis paralysis.
 
It seems to me that its down to either the L'aigle or the PROline.
CAME would have to seriously redesign the arm to make it work for RedUsers.

L'aigle seem great but the rubber is a concern which may or may not be warranted.
PROLine seem the best fit for RED as their arm can handle a lot.

Until we have seen tests of either system is hard to make decision.

What is the status on getting both the L'aigle & PROline units tested?
 
That is a big selling point to me with the L'aigle having seemingly nice warranty offerings. - 2-years warranty (and 10 years on the latex tensioners)I believe the Proline has one year.


For some reason, I have a good feeling about the L'aigle but I really am looking forward to the tests and would like to get my hands on both of these at NAB if possible. I can't seem to find many reviews of the ProLine online...
 
Brad Crawford said:
Coming from Central (COLD AS HELL) Canada... reading the concerns regarding weather on the L'aigle's elastics gives me pause... I don't like the idea of having to adjust depending on weather either hot or cold is not something that seems appealing, granted I try to avoid shooting in the VERY cold anyways.. but it does come up more often than not. I'm talking -20 to -40 celcius. I've shot in as cold as -50... i'm sure these temperatures would negatively effect even robust steel steadicams to some degree. Regardless, it's food for thought. Maybe something the people who test the l'aigle can explore.
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Natural rubber as well as synthetic polymers will degrade in cold weather temperatures. Failure point for latex tubing is generally around -50 C, but it would lose its elasticity before then. Probably at between -20 to -30 C. When cooled below this point it would quickly lose its elasticity but this isn't permanent and can be recovered. This is why winter tyres are recommended in very cold climates. It uses softer rubber that can maintain elastic properties at lower temps.

Steel springs wouldn't be much help in those sorts of temps either. Carbon steel will become brittle at around -30 C potentially cracking or failing completely under load. Vehicle springs are generally steel mixed with other ingredients to make the brittle point lower.
 
David Kellermann said:
I thought about it, but then didn't wrote them a mail. I think the resell price of Tiffen products is too high, so they would destroy their own market. They are already the market leader, producing their units is high quantities, so they can't really justify a price drop due to larger ordering volumes. My guess is that the discount wouldn't go above 15%. What I did was contacting a Steadicam dealer, who is also producing steadicams (Betz Tools), asking about a custom unit or a special price for the Zephyr, but never heard from them again.

But I could write them a mail. Maybe they are interested.
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I think it might be worth getting in touch with Tiffen. The Zephyr ships with a monitor (and has different configs), so who knows what could happen in terms of reducing items it ships with vs cost discounts etc... you've got some great results from other companies... and Tiffen are pretty much one of the standards, so mods aren't required.

I'd say contact them as you have the others, there's lots of traction in these threads now - and lots of people (ie potential customers)... and this user base wouldn't (I presume) be looking at purchasing from the normal suppliers, so it's not exactly lost sales on that side.
 
I'm pretty certain Tiffen would not contribute to this Group Buy. If they want to keep the many distributors happy, this is a long shot.

Andy White said:
I think it might be worth getting in touch with Tiffen. The Zephyr ships with a monitor (and has different configs), so who knows what could happen in terms of reducing items it ships with vs cost discounts etc... you've got some great results from other companies... and Tiffen are pretty much one of the standards, so mods aren't required.

I'd say contact them as you have the others, there's lots of traction in these threads now - and lots of people (ie potential customers)... and this user base wouldn't (I presume) be looking at purchasing from the normal suppliers, so it's not exactly lost sales on that side.
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roryhinds said:
...L'aigle seem great but the rubber is a concern which may or may not be warranted.
PROLine seem the best fit for RED as their arm can handle a lot...
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It's not rubber, it's Latex, and it's got a 10 year warranty, much more than the 1 year std warranty on the PROline.
 
I really appreciate these types of responses, so much info/knowledge provided that clearly answers my concerns. I suppose I shouldn't be expecting to use a steadicam outdoors in these conditions, or at least not one that isn't way more expensive and designed with that in mind. Thanks for the quick response, still not sure which would make more sense for moderate winter shooting... losing elasticity doesn't sound like it would end well with a 25lb rig on the arm.

Owen Davies said:
Natural rubber as well as synthetic polymers will degrade in cold weather temperatures. Failure point for latex tubing is generally around -50 C, but it would lose its elasticity before then. Probably at between -20 to -30 C. When cooled below this point it would quickly lose its elasticity but this isn't permanent and can be recovered. This is why winter tyres are recommended in very cold climates. It uses softer rubber that can maintain elastic properties at lower temps.

Steel springs wouldn't be much help in those sorts of temps either. Carbon steel will become brittle at around -30 C potentially cracking or failing completely under load. Vehicle springs are generally steel mixed with other ingredients to make the brittle point lower.
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Tom Wills said:
Hey Chris,

[Regarding Lift Perfromance Curves] Quite frankly, one graph will show you almost nothing about an arm. For instance, a 3A arm can get quite isoelastic at its top weight range, whereas an arm like the Liang will only be anywhere near isoelastic at the absolute bottom of its weight range. You'd need many curves, across many different weight settings, and even then, the force numbers mean very little.

An arm can do a wonderful job of stabilizing without being isoelastic, and an isoelastic arm sometimes can be your worst nightmare, if it's not built properly (case in point, the G-50 and G-70 from Steadicam, which had to be completely overhauled because they showed the operator's footsteps while slowly walking).

Most of this is totally subjective too - there are a lot of people who fly every day with a 3A arm and are plenty happy with it, even though it isn't anywhere near isoelastic. There are also those who feel lost without their "ride" control (like on Tiffen's top end arms). For the price ranges you're all looking at in this group buy, the best you can really ask for is that it does the job well, and doesn't feel too tough to operate. Beyond that, I think, is a case of expectations being too high. Remember, we're talking about a rig in total that costs less than what I paid for the grip for my gimbal.
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Thanks Tom! Great insights on a number of makes and models. I agree 100% that a single lift performance curve for an arm for just one particular sled weight will not tell the full story of the arm. If we can get a rough idea of the human lift required at a number of key sled weights (e.g. +/- 3kg from the "standard Red" 11kg) it could shed some light pretty quickly on whether the arm is a bit of an "all-rounder" or whether it has a very narrow "sweetspot". I reckon even some rough data from the testers might show up some interesting contrasts between makes. And its great to know Tom that the whole "iso thing" is no barrier to good work if all the bearings and connections are good. That's definitely light at the end of the tunnel.
 
Hi Vitaly I'm Luciano the representative and one of the designers of proline if you have any question let me know
thank's
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Cool.

I have only few questions.

If you check http://www.thecinecity.com/eshop/FL...meras-weighing-up-to-5-15kgs-11lbs-33lbs.html
you can see that ProLine vest is, in fact, vest from FlyCam 7300 indian system.

Same goes for sled, it has improved rail mount alu blocks that are custom machined and top plate is clearly repleced for custom machined, but otherwise it is indian sled. Customised.

Arm is original, using three springs. Looks cool. Can you tell how many arms you produced and sold up to date?
 
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yes the indian's bought me 1 gear a year and a half ago and copy the sled almost same topstage monitor and battery bracket as our last model
yes the vest is from the same dealer as flycam with some change in the socket, that vest is really strong confortable and good price and can handle an arri 535, lite red one alexa. if you wanna pay us$ 3000 more we can offer another vest or a wk backmount for us$ 5000 we have many options in vests, monitors, batteries, tally sistems.
 
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